Convened at 2014-10-07 15:07:36.004291 by tumbleweed
in #debconf16-capetown on oftc
[15:07:36]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: start meeting about debconf16, post-venue-visit meeting
[15:07:36]
* tibid
gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles
[15:08:45]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: topic agenda
[15:08:45]
<tibid>
Current Topic: agenda
[15:08:53]
<tumbleweed>
what do we want to talk about?
[15:08:55]
<tumbleweed>
venue summary
[15:08:56]
<tumbleweed>
dates
[15:08:57]
<tumbleweed>
??
[15:09:09]
<indiebio>
that's all... don't have the energy for sponsorships
[15:09:16]
<nattie>
are we narrowing venues during this meeting or has it already been done, or...?
[15:09:18]
<tumbleweed>
one more item: What next
[15:09:24]
<indiebio>
although, we had some chatting about day trip things during our driving
[15:09:26]
<wendar>
questions/comments from people who weren't able to join the site visits
[15:09:34]
<tumbleweed>
ok
[15:09:39]
<tumbleweed>
let's talk about venues then
[15:09:39]
<nattie>
oh, i know the answer to "what next". it's "run around flailing your arms and panicking"
[15:09:43]
<indiebio>
nattie: we narrowed a bit, but we need prices, and I'm busy getting those
[15:09:45]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: topic Venues
[15:09:45]
<tibid>
Current Topic: Venues
[15:09:46]
- ginggs
online
[15:09:50]
<tumbleweed>
georgl: hi
[15:09:50]
<nattie>
aha, ok
[15:09:52]
<tumbleweed>
ginggs: even
[15:10:00]
<nattie>
hi folks who've just arrived
[15:10:09]
<ginggs>
hi all
[15:10:16]
<tumbleweed>
we're just about to talk about venues
[15:10:25]
<tumbleweed>
so, we summarised our views into https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Bids/Cape_Town#Venues_being_investigated
[15:10:38]
<tumbleweed>
I think the top votes are for Breakwater campus and Chem Eng building
[15:10:43]
<tumbleweed>
both UCT fascilities
[15:10:52]
<Hodgestar>
What is a good number of venue options to include in our proposal? 2, 3?
[15:10:59]
<tumbleweed>
(you can see photos, from the link above the table)
[15:11:19]
<tumbleweed>
Hodgestar: Germany bid with 2 cities https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf15/Bids/Germany
[15:11:22]
<wendar>
Hodgestar: at least 5, but maybe more, since we've split UCT into 4 different items
[15:12:02]
<madduck>
Hodgestar: I suggest to create a short list of 2–3 items first and then develop them, and in a month or so we know whether we can propose just one, or alternatives too
[15:12:19]
<tumbleweed>
it sounds like we can book chem-eng for free, and keep it as a backup
[15:12:23]
<tumbleweed>
so we absolutely should do that
[15:12:55]
<wendar>
madduck: we'll definitely propose alternatives
[15:13:04]
<georgl>
tumbleweed:hi
[15:13:05]
<Hodgestar>
Maybe we need to make "UCT" and "UCT Breakwater" and then have "UCT" have a bunch of options?
[15:13:19]
<tumbleweed>
anything on UCT main campus also probably means accom at half the price of breakwater
[15:13:20]
<Hodgestar>
If we offer 4 options that are the same it makes it look like we're short on options?
[15:13:27]
<madduck>
wendar: just as long as you are aware of the backlash you might get ;)
[15:13:36]
<tumbleweed>
georgl: hi. I wasn't meaning to ping you, but please do follow along :)
[15:13:41]
<wendar>
madduck: well, we want to show we haven't cast all our eggs in one basket
[15:13:44]
<madduck>
there is also a difference between alternatives and backups ;)
[15:13:50]
<wendar>
madduck: we definitely have 2 favorites
[15:13:51]
<madduck>
wendar: right ;)
[15:13:56]
<Hodgestar>
Is internet at UCT really 2?
[15:13:57]
<georgl>
i will catch up, just got in from work
[15:14:08]
<Hodgestar>
I've still never managed to connect anything to the UCT network since I left. :P
[15:14:08]
<indiebio>
yes, important note is that ginggs and I will apply and book for UCT ChemEng as a back-up, regardless.
[15:14:11]
<tumbleweed>
Hodgestar: 10Gbps fibre...
[15:14:21]
<tumbleweed>
Hodgestar: but yes, the wifi may be tricky
[15:14:34]
<Hodgestar>
tumbleweed: The last 100m is important. :)
[15:14:34]
<tumbleweed>
we'd want a custom SSID, or our own wifi kit, probably
[15:14:42]
<indiebio>
it's the best you're gonna get in South Africa, let's put it that way
[15:14:48]
<tumbleweed>
I don't know how ameanable ICTS is going to be to this
[15:14:55]
<wendar>
madduck: if you really think the current table is too long, we could trim it down to just the UCT options and Techno Park
[15:15:07]
<wendar>
madduck: but... germany listed quite a few options
[15:15:11]
<indiebio>
tumbleweed: they were fine for TEDx, which was only one day, but had livestreaming
[15:15:29]
<nattie>
we could move the ones that aren't really under consideration to the bottom of the table. want me to do that?
[15:15:30]
<madduck>
wendar: sure, at this point it's fine. But you need to pick a short list soon and then go in-depth on those…
[15:15:37]
<tumbleweed>
indiebio: We're not worried about quality. I'm worried about them giving us the freedom to do what we need.
[15:15:44]
<indiebio>
and seeing that this is more aligned to university stuffs, and in vac, I think they'll be convinced
[15:15:51]
<wendar>
madduck: yes, already planned :)
[15:16:00]
<madduck>
wendar: and realistically, 2–3 items on the short list is enough
[15:16:02]
<indiebio>
they should, they did for TEDx, as firewalls and whatnots were too much effort
[15:16:06]
<madduck>
and you won't be able to do more anyway
[15:16:39]
<indiebio>
madduck: I am doing follow ups with in depth questions and pricing, which should exclude some
[15:16:59]
<tumbleweed>
and really, I think we're concentrating on UCT now
[15:17:23]
<tumbleweed>
The baxter UCT option can probably go
[15:17:25]
<indiebio>
nattie: we could remove the no's, their details are still on the good-bad-ugly page
[15:17:32]
<indiebio>
(don't edit that one, I'm busy on it!!)
[15:17:38]
<nattie>
indiebio: point!
[15:17:46]
<nattie>
i'll take the no's out of the front page now, though
[15:17:50]
<madduck>
indiebio: right, but what I mean with "in-depth" isn't really suitable to email. What I am talking about is working through the LocationChecklist page item by item…
[15:17:53]
<nattie>
we can always revert if we change our mind
[15:18:26]
<indiebio>
madduck: sure, but pricing may already exclude some, which will determine the proiority areas, make sense?
[15:18:50]
<tumbleweed>
madduck: right, we aren't going to do that for all of these venues :)
[15:18:54]
<indiebio>
as wendar noted, we do have quite a few venues that are very suitable
[15:19:21]
<Hodgestar>
It looks like the Protea Hotel / Technopark got lots of thumbs up from those visiting?
[15:19:25]
<indiebio>
madduck, can you send me that locationchecklist if it's easy at hand?
[15:19:26]
<madduck>
indiebio: yes and no; it's good to get a basic idea of pricing, but negotiations are best when you have 2–3 strong alternatives that you can play off against each other.
[15:19:28]
<Hodgestar>
Can someone elaborate on the 0s?
[15:19:47]
<wendar>
madduck: we're not actually negotiating until we get the bid
[15:19:53]
<indiebio>
hodgestar: apart from being too posh, and possibly as a result pricey, I thought it very suitable
[15:19:55]
<Hodgestar>
Are the travel 0s just because it's in Stellenbosch?
[15:19:55]
<indiebio>
thanks madduck
[15:20:20]
<Hodgestar>
And how is it possible to get a 0 for access to food in Stellenbosch? :)
[15:20:30]
<wendar>
madduck: at this point, we need to show feasibility of the city, so we don't want to just show one option (make it look risky)
[15:20:32]
<tumbleweed>
Hodgestar: yeah, mostly
[15:20:33]
<indiebio>
it is out of the way, would require dedicated buses. and being in stellenbosch means missioning from the airport. But I think wendar and tumbleweed is better placed to answer this
[15:20:38]
<tumbleweed>
Hodgestar: technopark isn't in stellenbosch per se
[15:19:49]
<tumbleweed>
indiebio: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/LocationCheckList
[15:20:52]
<indiebio>
it's in between stellies and somerset west
[15:20:53]
* Hodgestar
looks at maps.
[15:20:56]
<madduck>
wendar: good plan
[15:21:03]
<tumbleweed>
Hodgestar: we probably could have said 0.5 for those
[15:21:10]
<tumbleweed>
sure, they aren't 0 as in middle of the karoo
[15:21:19]
<tumbleweed>
but they would require us to run busses or something
[15:22:28]
<indiebio>
madduck: we did the site visits for all of these in the past two days, and asked a good many of these questions, so I feel it is well covered for a first stab
[15:23:37]
<wendar>
I guess to summarize, we had a good run the past few days.
[15:23:49]
<wendar>
And, I feel entirely confident we could host an excellent DebConf here.
[15:23:57]
<indiebio>
\o/
[15:23:58]
<wendar>
That's really what I wanted out of it.
[15:24:03]
<madduck>
\o/
[15:24:05]
<tumbleweed>
or 2 or 3 :P
[15:24:13]
<wendar>
We've got a lot of details, and a list of more to gather.
[15:24:15]
<indiebio>
one at a time, tumbleweed
[15:24:36]
<tumbleweed>
so, any questions about any of the venues?
[15:24:48]
<tumbleweed>
(or other 0s)
[15:24:58]
* tumbleweed
can't remember why we gave baxter a 0 on catered food
[15:25:16]
<indiebio>
they have a restaurant...
[15:25:39]
<nattie>
also, the other UCT venues still have a ? on catered food
[15:25:46]
<indiebio>
should I follow up on baxter or is their paranoid security a dealbreaker?
[15:26:01]
<Hodgestar>
Breakwater has lots of 2s, do people like it more than Technopark? How much of an issue do we think pricing will be?
[15:26:04]
<indiebio>
nattie: UCT would require bringing food in, so we don't know that yet
[15:26:10]
<nattie>
aha
[15:26:11]
<indiebio>
Breakwater is the current favourite
[15:26:15]
<wendar>
I'd put baxter below breakwater, chem eng, leslie, and kramer
[15:26:21]
<Hodgestar>
indiebio: Woot.
[15:26:24]
<indiebio>
ok, so I'll follow up
[15:26:34]
<indiebio>
hodgestar, meaning?
[15:26:47]
<indiebio>
is irc case sensitive to names, by the way? :)
[15:26:48]
<Hodgestar>
indiebio: Woot == everything is right with the world. :)
[15:26:49]
<wendar>
baxter is a least worth a price list
[15:26:53]
<indiebio>
:)
[15:27:16]
<indiebio>
ok, it's the dates and willingness to let us loose for 10 days that's going to decide that. Prices are reasonable
[15:27:20]
<indiebio>
and accommodation...
[15:27:28]
<indiebio>
which links with their off-season....
[15:27:44]
<wendar>
yeah, any of those could knock baxter out
[15:28:03]
<nattie>
so, what was the problem with baxter having an attitude?
[15:28:11]
<nattie>
i am still slightly out of the loop
[15:28:28]
<tumbleweed>
Hodgestar: Technopark is a bit out of the way (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but does mean more work for us)
[15:28:29]
<wendar>
They were just very protective of their space.
[15:28:54]
<wendar>
And, it was on the nicer theatre side.
[15:29:04]
<wendar>
As in major productions of shakespeare theatre.
[15:29:07]
<nattie>
aha
[15:29:13]
<wendar>
red velvet chairs
[15:29:16]
<wendar>
(IIRC)
[15:29:17]
<nattie>
probably not quite the right vibe
[15:29:30]
<tumbleweed>
Hodgestar: it also felt like a conference hotel. But then, now that I think back, so did breakwater
[15:29:54]
<Hodgestar>
tumbleweed: Is that a + or a - ? :)
[15:29:55]
<wendar>
It had a quirky, fun, artistic quality, that made it probably viable.
[15:30:10]
<nattie>
indiebio: irc fixes the cases if you tab-complete, most clients do anyway
[15:30:31]
<indiebio>
nattie: they're anal. Baxter is UCT's whole beureaucracy palaba, PLUS a whole 'nother layer of admin for Baxter
[15:30:42]
<nattie>
oh joy
[15:30:44]
<wendar>
technopark felt more like a conference hotel than the others.
[15:31:00]
<confluency>
Oh, hey, a meeting.
[15:31:02]
<tumbleweed>
Hodgestar: - I'd say. I think debconf is a bit too abnormal for a conference hotel
[15:31:11]
<indiebio>
I felt breakwater is very business-like. Must admit my favourite is chemeng, but obviously, I'm biased, as it's my home
[15:31:30]
* nattie
waves at confluency
[15:31:32]
<indiebio>
breakwater's add-ons - outside life, pubs, accommodation is just all very suitable
[15:32:13]
<wendar>
indiebio: yeah, I can see us having a lot of fun up and down the levels of chem eng, it has a good geeky feel to it
[15:32:20]
<indiebio>
nattie, I think you will just LOVE Baxter. I like it very much, but the people dent it a bit
[15:32:21]
<tumbleweed>
Hodgestar: debconf doesn't want to be waited on hand and foot. We want to take over your venue, and run our own thing. We also want to drink and play Mao all night
[15:32:42]
<nattie>
tumbleweed: long live the 5th floor
[15:32:46]
<indiebio>
Breakwater will allow it, but we will probably feel like we shouldn't the whole time
[15:32:58]
<tumbleweed>
nattie: indeed
[15:33:01]
* confluency
scrolls up a lot.
[15:33:12]
<wendar>
indiebio: we didn't visit it, but didn't you say chem eng has a 5th floor balcony for social gatherings too?
[15:33:13]
<nattie>
and if there isn't a 5th floor in your building, we'll build one ;)
[15:33:16]
<indiebio>
the other thing with chemeng, there's still academics in there during vac. It is quieter as peeps go to conferences, but we might have to respect *some* areas
[15:33:25]
<indiebio>
oooh yes.
[15:33:35]
<indiebio>
and what happens at beerclub stays at beerclub :D
[15:33:39]
<nattie>
!
[15:33:42]
<indiebio>
but it won't take 300 people at one
[15:33:59]
<wendar>
in favor of Breakwater is that we'd pretty much own the space for the weeks
[15:34:04]
<indiebio>
The new building has a lot of play-space too
[15:34:06]
<nattie>
that's ok, the actual socialising contingent is always smaller than the total of attendees
[15:34:31]
<indiebio>
wendar, you can take a quick look tonight
[15:34:51]
<wendar>
indiebio: ah, right
[15:34:54]
<wendar>
we should photograph
[15:37:06]
<tumbleweed>
ready to move the discussion on?
[15:37:26]
<wendar>
nod
[15:37:30]
<indiebio>
yeah, I think the bottom line is we need follow up prices to make a better shortlist, but the vibe currently is exceedingly positive
[15:37:45]
<indiebio>
you can probably minute that, tumbleweed :)
[15:38:08]
<Hodgestar>
Current concensus appears to be: Breakwater, followed by other UCT (primaril ChemEng), followed by Technopark?
[15:38:19]
<Hodgestar>
Concensus might change given pricing.
[15:38:28]
<nattie>
that sounds like a pretty good narrowing so far
[15:38:35]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: agreed We like the UCT venues (breakwater, chem eng), then technopark
[15:38:35]
<tibid>
Agreed: We like the UCT venues (breakwater, chem eng), then technopark
[15:39:02]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: topic Dates
[15:39:02]
<tibid>
Current Topic: Dates
[15:39:13]
<tumbleweed>
indiebio: you were proposing some dates to conferences in quotation requests
[15:39:18]
<tumbleweed>
do we want to discuss that any further
[15:39:31]
<indiebio>
I suggested 12-22 august
[15:39:35]
<indiebio>
for no real reason
[15:39:54]
<wendar>
dates kind of depend on venue
[15:39:58]
<indiebio>
I do think the July-August slot is the most favourable in terms of off-season pricing and the multiple things we have discussed over email so far
[15:40:00]
<tumbleweed>
yeah
[15:40:05]
<wendar>
for main UCT, we have to go with vac
[15:40:21]
<tumbleweed>
so as long as the request says ~ "or give us your best dates" it's all good
[15:40:31]
<indiebio>
I am definitely not saying those are THE dates, but the venues really struggle with no dates at all
[15:40:38]
* nattie
is very much in favour of august
[15:40:40]
<tumbleweed>
yeah, it's a good start
[15:40:42]
<indiebio>
yeah, but we're so far ahead in time, they're still open, so they don't know
[15:40:56]
<indiebio>
when do we need definite dates? late 2015?
[15:41:32]
<indiebio>
my current phrase is "pending mutual suitability closer to the time;"
[15:41:43]
<wendar>
indiebio: we'd want DebCamp before a weekend, then Debian Day on a weekend, then DebConf on a week after
[15:42:01]
<nattie>
wendar, indiebio: 10-20 August perhaps?
[15:42:14]
<wendar>
so, 15-26th or 22 - the Sept Friday
[15:42:21]
<wendar>
Sept 2nd
[15:42:30]
<nattie>
it would be nice to include the 16th
[15:42:34]
<nattie>
and the 17th
[15:42:45]
<tumbleweed>
and UCT vac is 1 Jun 2016 to 17 Jul 2016
[15:43:04]
<tumbleweed>
so for chem eng, we'd probably be looking at the beginning of july?
[15:43:13]
<indiebio>
'k
[15:43:21]
<wendar>
yeah, first couple weeks of july for dorm residence
[15:43:23]
<indiebio>
also, set-up and breakdown times, how long do we need extra?
[15:43:29]
<tumbleweed>
maybe that'd be too late, even
[15:43:41]
<indiebio>
I need to check with UCT for graduation dates as well, would want to steer clear of those, ideally
[15:44:01]
<tumbleweed>
ok, so we just tell them mid-year-vac 2016
[15:44:27]
<indiebio>
yes, at this stage I need to tailor these dates for each venue, actually
[15:44:49]
<indiebio>
oh, by the way, once I get all the prices and stuff onto git, can I ask someone else to tabulate them and do a cost analysis jobbie?
[15:45:24]
<wendar>
I can do that
[15:45:29]
<wendar>
(I did it for Portland)
[15:45:41]
<tumbleweed>
ok, and we can help you get those PDFs into git, this evening
[15:46:03]
<tumbleweed>
moving on?
[15:46:11]
<indiebio>
tumbleweed: thanks
[15:46:21]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: topic What next?
[15:46:21]
<tibid>
Current Topic: What next
[15:46:41]
<tumbleweed>
Draw up full LocationChecklists for our 3 venues?
[15:46:44]
<indiebio>
yeah, so the minutes for dates is that it is venue dependent, and those dates tumbleweed and wendar discussed
[15:47:10]
<indiebio>
I would say next is get basis pricing (in progress)
[15:47:19]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: agreed dates are venue-dependant, but 10-20 aug is what we're suggesting as a hint
[15:47:19]
<tibid>
Agreed: dates are venue-dependant, but 10-20 aug is what we're suggesting as a hint
[15:47:33]
<indiebio>
Then use that to set up priority list based on that and draw up full LocationChecklists for the top 3 venues
[15:48:15]
<indiebio>
just getting back to dates quick, set-up and breakdown times, how long do we need extra?
[15:48:29]
<indiebio>
so if we book the 10th, are we running on the 10th, or setting up on the 10th?
[15:48:46]
<nattie>
not ACTUALLY that long for setup and breakdown, but a day either end is nice
[15:48:54]
<tumbleweed>
indiebio: setup usually happens during debcamp
[15:49:02]
<tumbleweed>
teardown happens on the last night of the conference
[15:49:15]
<tumbleweed>
we're quite good at that
[15:49:16]
<indiebio>
ok
[15:49:24]
<tumbleweed>
although we may need one or two rooms for another few days
[15:49:29]
<indiebio>
and start and end times each day?
[15:49:38]
<tumbleweed>
and attendees should have some possibility of extra time in accom, to get their flights
[15:49:41]
<nattie>
the vidteam has got *extremely* good at tidying up after itself
[15:49:45]
<indiebio>
assuming we don't stay in the actual plenary/smaller venues for the hacking etc
[15:49:47]
<wendar>
depends on whether we do american or european style
[15:49:48]
* nattie
has much love for the videoteam anyway
[15:50:02]
<wendar>
European style runs sessions until 8 or 9pm
[15:50:22]
<wendar>
American would wrap up sessions at 6pm.
[15:50:24]
<nattie>
i think that's a *little* excessive
[15:50:28]
<nattie>
oops, where'd she go?
[15:51:55]
<tumbleweed>
we can catch her up (or ginggs can)
[15:52:05]
<nattie>
point
[15:52:13]
<tumbleweed>
are done?
[15:52:31]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: end meeting