Minutes from Meeting about DebConf 16 Cape Town bid planning meeting Convened at 2014-10-15 18:50:36.516489 by tumbleweed in #debconf16-capetown on oftc Minutes ======= [18:50:36] STARTED (tumbleweed) [18:51:53] TOPIC: Review of quotes received from venues (tumbleweed) [19:05:35] AGREED: wendar to get the quotes into a spreadsheet for comparison (tumbleweed) [19:27:53] TOPIC: Delegation of Location Checklist write-ups (tumbleweed) [19:53:40] AGREED: ginggs will contact the dean of engineering (tumbleweed) [19:54:00] AGREED: tumbleweed will start writing up the UCT locations (tumbleweed) [19:55:17] AGREED: ginggs will contact film production companies to get details of caterers (tumbleweed) [20:02:41] AGREED: indiebio to start working on the bid (tumbleweed) [20:03:25] AGREED: split the conference planning bits that aren't relevant to the bid evaluation, out into their own page(s?) (tumbleweed) [20:05:00] ENDED (tumbleweed) Present ======= * ginggs * tumbleweed * madduck * superfly * Hodgestar * indiebio * nattie * wendar Raw Log ======= [18:50:36] tibid: start meeting about DebConf 16 Cape Town bid planning meeting [18:50:36] * tibid gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles [18:50:47] first item? [18:50:59] ok, we have Hint Of Agenda, soon as i dig up the mail [18:51:06] all I have is the thing I mailed [18:51:07] * Review of quotes received from venues [18:51:07] * Figure out how to beat them down (the quotes I've seen are way too high) [18:51:10] * Delegation of Location Checklist write-ups. [18:51:13] any more additions? [18:51:45] i think let's just get started. the quotes will take some time to deal with [18:51:47] that's a no [18:51:53] tibid: topic Review of quotes received from venues [18:51:53] Current Topic: Review of quotes received from venues [18:52:12] http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/debconf-data/bid-capetown.git/tree/venue_info [18:52:17] so i think we currently have two concrete quotes, right? [18:52:54] Technopark and River club? [18:53:00] we also have a price list from schoenstatt [18:53:15] and lord charles [18:53:22] yes [18:53:27] and from what I've seen of the other two quotes, they don't really deviate from the price lists [18:53:38] I am still waiting for blackwater [18:53:44] and chrysalis seems interested [18:53:45] oh, hold on, i missed the lord charles one [18:54:00] it is too far in the future for them to make any special arrangements or anything... [18:54:11] fuck. breakwater, sorry [18:54:17] I'm a sanitation engineer :) [18:54:17] :) [18:54:45] * tumbleweed is glad to hear we aren't dealing with paramilitary organisations [18:55:27] though i'm sure we'll look very dashing in uniform if we have to. especially with the balaclavas. [18:55:49] So the quotes that we have we sortof expected them to be pricey. [18:56:04] I didn't expect river club to be [18:56:06] yeah, they're quoting for a lot of things we emphatically won't need [18:56:16] wow, R2 million [18:57:10] they are quoting for more rooms than we need, and 300 people for the entire 10 days [18:57:24] *nods* [18:57:33] and, confusingly, for the rooms twice, or something like that [18:57:39] we need to ask them to explain it [18:57:39] so certainly on that front, we can get it down by quite a bit [18:57:42] yes [18:57:53] ok, so this isn't a valid quote anyway, I mainly asked for prices to get an analysis going. [18:57:54] i'm wondering if it's a manoeuvre to see if we flinch [18:58:20] they probably don't put much care into initial quotes, just toss in the lot, and see what people actually want [18:58:22] tell them that R2mil is about 1.9 mil over our budget :-P [18:58:25] What I would like to see next is someone to do a spreadsheet of some kind and itemise and cost these things sothat they're comparable acorss venues [18:58:39] The lady at river club, collette, was just trying to give as much info as possible. [18:58:56] I can do that this weekend, with the info we have so far [18:59:03] ok, so we'll call that a worst-case scenario, budget-wise [18:59:13] (reusing the spreadsheets I used for the same thing for Portland) [18:59:41] icool, thanks wendar, I know you sent me stuff, but got lots on at the moment, and I think it's also time for the rest of the team to chip in here :) [18:59:46] do we have a standard inflation measure? [18:59:53] I'd like to get started on the proposal... [19:00:07] I won't complain if someone else wants to do spreadsheets either/too :) [19:00:11] I was working on 6%, but the venue people said 10% per annum, or something like that. [19:00:21] 10% is too high [19:00:26] I would make it a separate cell, then we can change it later if we have to. [19:00:55] current inflation is something like 6.5% I think [19:00:46] http://beta2.statssa.gov.za/?page_id=735&id=3 [19:01:12] yeah, I'd really like to see how things total up for what they're quoting us now anyway [19:01:46] (for a lot of these places, I suspect we'll be negotiating down *below* current rates, not for 20% above current rates, despite inflation) [19:02:12] yeah, we have to get them way down [19:02:52] The fact that we have NEB for practically nothing is a great bargaining tool. :) [19:03:07] or ChemEng, or whatever [19:03:11] so, should we work out what we're requesting? [19:03:21] I would still not get bogged down in that until we have a proper analysis... [19:03:40] wendar: NEB, actually. ChemEng confuses ginggs :) [19:03:52] is it worth analysing quotes in detail, if we don't think they're plausible for us, yet? [19:04:21] the rough ballpark of "standard" rates is good enough for the bid [19:04:26] only inasmuch as we can hope to make a model soon and have it analysed before the next meeting [19:04:38] together with an estimate of how much "influence" we'd likely have over the venue for bargaining [19:04:47] ok [19:05:13] oh, I should minute this [19:05:35] tibid: agreed wendar to get the quotes into a spreadsheet for comparison [19:05:35] Agreed: wendar to get the quotes into a spreadsheet for comparison [19:05:53] anything else to discuss here? NEB stuff? [19:06:33] I would say, list, plenary, breakaway etc etc, then fill in the price per day, then add them all up. [19:06:41] yeah [19:06:46] I could set up the empty table, but it will be on google sheets :P [19:06:51] we should work out how many rooms we actually need [19:07:01] that will depend on the venue, to some degree [19:07:01] indiebio: wendar's got a spreadsheet from last year [19:07:15] ok, to a first approximation? [19:07:34] 2 talk, 2 bof, 2 hacklab [19:07:45] we'll likely only need the plenary room on two occasions (opening and closing) [19:07:47] yeah, let's stick with libreoffice, rather than google :) [19:07:57] plus 100-150 double bedrooms? [19:08:18] wendar, can you load that sheet up on alioth please? [19:08:34] for the video team, plenary = main talk room is much easier [19:08:45] yes [19:08:47] indiebio: well, it's all portland at the moment, but I'll upload it when I've got a rough start [19:09:14] 'K thanks. is this the same one you emailed me? [19:09:24] yup, that's the one [19:09:36] ok cool [19:09:50] you can see we did multiple profile estimates, based on number of attendees [19:10:04] (i.e. 200 people is a very different total than 300) [19:10:20] and for sponsored lodging/food, sliced it even finer [19:10:26] by what time will we know if it's closer to 300 than 200? [19:10:28] * madduck checking in late sorry [19:10:46] we won't know final count until quite late [19:10:58] but, we also have the power to vary how many people we sponsor quite late [19:11:01] well, depending on when you close registrations ;) [19:11:39] it's a matter of setting a base required sponsorship amount for venue, and estimates for sponsorship [19:11:59] then, closer to the time, we may find attendance is closer to 200, and that we can sponsor travel for more people [19:12:13] ok [19:12:20] or, that we got more than the required minimum of sponsorship, which can also go to sponsor more travel [19:12:48] we will want to check with the venue and see if we'll have the ability to make slightly different room choices closer to the final date [19:13:08] (i.e. can we swap out their largest room for a slightly smaller one, 3 months before?) [19:13:12] that's a good point [19:13:28] With UCT, i'm sure that'll be doable [19:13:33] with others, it'll depend [19:13:50] sometimes contracts are only signed around that far in advance, right? [19:14:33] I'd hope the contract would be signed a year before, (or earlier), to lock in prices. [19:14:42] But, with options for variations later. [19:14:55] madduck: when did you sign for dc15? [19:15:10] yeah [19:15:18] contract? about 13 months in advance [19:15:23] nod [19:15:29] but it's a special contract in that we can cancel without charges until april 2015 [19:15:37] nice [19:15:37] excellent [19:16:05] yeah, I wanted to decrease the prices further and give up this right, but then decided not to push my luck that much ;) [19:16:21] :) [19:17:35] this is getting into my next agenda item of: Figure out how to beat them down (the quotes I've seen are way too high) [19:17:46] I guess it's too early for that [19:17:59] no it's not. [19:18:10] i've employed two strategies [19:18:42] first, even though I was the only one negotiating at that point [19:18:53] I always said that I am just a strawman and that I need to check with my team [19:19:13] and then I was able to say things like "my team currently likes Munich better, but I think Heidelberg would be cooler, is there anything we can do…" [19:19:23] :) [19:19:32] hahaha [19:19:34] nice [19:19:38] and second, I kept them updated whenever we made any advances in Munich [19:19:48] sometimes even when they weren't real, only possibilities. [19:19:56] it was bluffing, but it increased the pressure [19:20:04] because i knew early on that they wanted to host us [19:20:14] I am pretty sure you can do that too [19:20:20] and even though I don't advise bluffing [19:20:28] (unless it just so happens) [19:20:46] so who's got the least legible face here? [19:20:50] being the person out there that wants venue X and to side with them "against your own team" [19:20:53] can work very well [19:21:39] obviously it's not a guarantee for success. I was also very lucky to have had a very cooperative and young negotiation partner ;) [19:23:14] all the conference centers seem to be more full-service than we want [19:23:30] we need to get them down to bare-bones rooms with some chairs in them [19:23:48] yeah. and we don't need a technician [19:24:02] or snacks [19:24:21] that's why I'm holding out for places like chrysalis. but we can get back to e.g. river club with these comments... [19:24:28] snacks are nice-to-have but certainly not for an initial quote [19:24:30] well, we do need tehir technicial on call, if we're hiring any equipment from them [19:24:33] for that I need the analysis though. [19:24:42] indiebio: what do you think the chance is of allowing alcohol in chrysalis? [19:25:20] I guess we should be telling the venues that we're going to need a range of possibilities, depending on funding raised [19:25:30] and trying to get the low end of that range as low as we can [19:25:31] i dunno. I still need to meet with them. I think rather good if we can convince them we're responsible [19:25:52] for those who weren't there, I ask this becasue there were signs up EVERYWHERE [19:26:11] tumbleweed: meaning? [19:26:21] indiebio: "no alcohol" signs [19:26:54] well, they're working with youths at risk. but if the youths aren't there... [19:26:58] yeah [19:27:08] i don't know. I'll ask the guy when I meet with him [19:27:12] cool [19:27:18] ok, moving on? [19:27:53] tibid: topic Delegation of Location Checklist write-ups [19:27:53] Current Topic: Delegation of Location Checklist write-ups [19:28:15] we should probably start worknig on location checklist for the UCT venues [19:28:28] and whatever other favourites emerge? [19:29:00] I'm willing to start doing some of this [19:29:30] nattie: generally, we can do better on snacks ourselves, I believe, because our attendees are happier with more volume and longer serving times at lesser quality than what those centres can usually offer. [19:29:55] madduck: well, quite. whether we will be allowed to provide our own snacks is another matter, though [19:30:01] yeah [19:30:03] nattie: we have been asking venues that [19:30:09] but generally debconf is 3 meals, no snacks [19:30:11] "no alcohol" in the venue would be a first, but I wouldn't see it as a show-stopper [19:30:22] this would be venue + accom [19:31:04] I think we're subversive enough that we'd break any such rules, and it could be problematic [19:31:07] (see portland) [19:31:21] us, break rules? surely not. [19:31:28] the 5th floor doesn't exist [19:31:35] front desk was a constant stream of snacks [19:31:42] oh that was true [19:31:44] (where'd that come from? somebody left it here) [19:31:58] people kept bringing us stuff, and we said "here, take!" [19:32:03] front desk even delivered waffles, on occasion [19:32:12] heh [19:32:40] tumbleweed: yeah, and we are also a very responsible and reasonable crowd that doesn't misbehave in the way that makes people forbid alcohol in the venue [19:32:52] ... [19:32:55] largely. [19:33:00] so in general, it's not that important because we probably won't be noticed [19:33:04] madduck: yeah [19:33:18] but sure, if it means we'd get kicked out when a beer is sighted, then this would be a show-stopper i guess [19:33:21] but, official permission to bring our own food/alcohol is a plus [19:33:39] (as we're weighting venue choices) [19:34:10] wendar: unless there is food/alcohol on sale for reasonable prices, double-plus if we can influence the offerings. [19:34:17] nod [19:34:23] nod too [19:35:56] * Hodgestar forgot about the meeting. :/ [19:36:00] * Hodgestar reads. [19:36:13] * wendar back in five, changing locations for expiring parking [19:36:13] * tumbleweed should program a pingall into tibid [19:36:23] Hodgestar: dude, i sent a mail to the list... [19:37:02] shall we hold for a few minutes, give Hodgestar a change to catch up while wendar moves her car? [19:37:24] sure, I think we're winding up, anyway [19:39:49] BTW, if we can get outside catering, there are plenty of companies that service the film industry here, and being winter (off-peak) we could probably negotiate good rates [19:40:03] just mentioning that for the record, i have plenty of contacts [19:40:04] yeah [19:40:24] these are areas where I expect a cape town bid to be strong (cheap and good quality) [19:40:59] ginggs: how strong are these contacts? can you get non-binding preliminary inofficial approximate quotes from them? ;) [19:41:23] yeah, that'd be cool [19:41:32] I'd also love to see some quotes for busses [19:41:59] nattie: I know. :/ [19:42:10] busses are like 5€/person/day in .de, so those are negligible costs, really. [19:42:11] No need to wait for me unnecessarily. I'm caught up now. [19:42:23] please minute the bus thing, tumbleweed [19:42:24] Hodgestar: sorry, i wasn't *actually* bitching you out, just pretending to, for effect [19:42:29] tumbleweed: but yeah, getting an idea of prices would be good. [19:42:33] madduck: and I'd expect even cheaper here [19:42:40] however, I would advise against getting quotes now [19:42:53] but if we were in an out of the way area, we may want to provide our own shuttles [19:42:53] wait until you have more information as that opens up for better negotiation positions. [19:43:46] re: catering: i'll send some mails [19:45:29] ya, public transport in Cape Town is pretty lousy compared to most cities in the US [19:45:48] waterfront would have good myciti service [19:45:54] anywhere else, ... [19:46:07] what's myciti? is that regular buses? [19:46:15] yeah [19:46:21] (sorry to ask all these silly questions, but, you know, foreign.) [19:46:24] except they call it an IRT [19:46:29] ? [19:46:31] "integrated rapid transport" [19:46:35] really. [19:46:39] busses that sometimes have delegated lanes [19:46:46] and bus-stops that are sort of like stations [19:46:48] river club would also be sorted [19:46:54] like guided buses, or different? [19:47:35] http://myciti.org.za/en/home/ - looks like a bus, smells like a bus, ... [19:47:47] yuk [19:48:08] ok, a bus with delusions of grandeur :) [19:52:29] * wendar (here) [19:52:43] ok [19:52:52] anything more? [19:53:09] what have we got minuted so far? [19:53:26] tibid: minutes so far [19:53:26] Minutes available at http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/tibid-meetings/oftc-%23debconf16-capetown-2014-10-15-18-50-36 [19:53:28] did we note that ginggs will contact the dean of engineering [19:53:31] + .html [19:53:40] tibid: agreed ginggs will contact the dean of engineering [19:53:40] Agreed: ginggs will contact the dean of engineering [19:54:00] tibid: agreed tumbleweed will start writing up the UCT locations [19:54:00] Agreed: tumbleweed will start writing up the UCT locations [19:54:32] anything else? [19:54:51] next meeting in 2 weeks? Or in a week, if there is something to discuss? [19:55:05] ginggs will contact film production companies to get details of caterers [19:55:06] 2 weeks should be fine, but we *can* discuss outside meetings, you know [19:55:07] tumbleweed, do you have/need the UCT venue capacity link? [19:55:17] tibid: agreed ginggs will contact film production companies to get details of caterers [19:55:17] Agreed: ginggs will contact film production companies to get details of caterers [19:55:24] indiebio: yes, I think I have it [19:56:01] I'd like to start with the bid proposal. I'm bored with venues, will push the ones who haven't supplied quotes, and load stuff up, but other than that I work on a request basis. :) [19:57:20] ok, so that's mostly writing it up and making it pretty? [19:57:29] and some overlap with things I'll be doing [19:57:57] indiobio: can we move the potential speakers piece off to a separate wiki page? [19:58:18] ok [19:58:50] also "Public engagement initiatives"? [19:58:57] tumbleweed: yes, and I want to play with the sponsor doc. basically just figuring out the look and feel of the thing for my own head [19:59:05] basically, anything that isn't intended for the audience of bid voting [19:59:06] grrr. ok. [19:59:19] it's important content for *us*, but not for them [19:59:28] (could be one "local team planning" page) [19:59:28] any particular heading, like, 'other stuff'? [19:59:40] perhaps "interna"? or is that a bit german? [19:59:44] I was thinking it would strengthen our bid as it shows we're reaching further [20:00:23] it'll definitely strengthen the event, and help us target local sponsors [20:00:23] we do have to work with the global talks team, to actually make these things happen [20:00:28] How about 'Auxiliary activities' [20:00:32] but.. the bid is evaluated on different criteria [20:00:52] sure, I'm not picky about the title of the separate page :) [20:00:53] this is more conference planning, than conference bid [20:02:26] oh, we can minute this too [20:02:41] tibid: agreed indiebio to start working on the bid [20:02:41] Agreed: indiebio to start working on the bid [20:03:25] tibid: agreed split the conference planning bits that aren't relevant to the bid evaluation, out into their own page(s?) [20:03:25] Agreed: split the conference planning bits that aren't relevant to the bid evaluation, out into their own page(s?) [20:03:41] it's been 90 mins and I'm getting hungry. Are we there yet? [20:04:24] seems like enough tasks for 2 weeks :) [20:04:30] there as we'll ever be [20:04:33] that's for sure :) [20:05:00] tibid: end meeting