Meeting about DebConf16 Cape Town Bid

Convened at 2014-11-12 19:33:13.481509 by tumbleweed in #debconf16-capetown on oftc


[19:33:13] STARTED (tumbleweed)
[19:47:25] AGREED: indiebio to get UCT-approved prices out of breakwater (tumbleweed)
[19:53:20] AGREED: indiebio to arrange meeting with Alex for a walkthrough (nattie)
[20:09:58] AGREED: indiebio to investigate hotel schools (nattie)
[20:26:19] AGREED: indiebio to harass someone in UCT about disabled access (tumbleweed)
[20:30:19] ENDED (tumbleweed)


Raw Log

[19:33:13] <tumbleweed> tibid: start meeting about DebConf16 Cape Town Bid
[19:33:13] * tibid gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles
[19:33:21] <tumbleweed> agenda:
[19:34:01] <tumbleweed> well, we've got the breakwater quote
[19:34:21] <wendar> I still need to enter that into the spreadsheet
[19:34:31] <wendar> also, a food quote for UCT main campus
[19:34:34] <indiebio> I haven't looked at the venue checklist thing yet - in other words, I haven't walked around again yet
[19:34:43] <nattie> i'll just get the breakwater info
[19:33:50] <tumbleweed> last meeting:
[19:36:54] <nattie> ok, got, reading now
[19:37:27] <indiebio> I haven't read it either, but just looking, the catering quotes say: 1 main course R170, 2: R195, 3: R220
[19:37:51] <indiebio> and because the restaurant is too small, they will have to set up a marquee tent, which will increase cost.
[19:38:03] <indiebio> And I'm imagining if it rains this will be sub-optimal.
[19:38:51] <tumbleweed> yeah
[19:38:56] <nattie> depending on how long the lunch break is, not everyone will be there at the same time, though
[19:39:11] <nattie> is using the internal catering obligatory if we go with Breakwater?
[19:39:12] <tumbleweed> yes, we ate in shifts, this year
[19:39:26] <tumbleweed> not formal shifts, but the dinner windows were 2 hours long
[19:39:41] <nattie> you'd get the initial stampede and the late stampede :)
[19:39:53] <nattie> ("oh no, dining hall's closing in 10 minutes!")
[19:40:47] <indiebio> I think the internal catering would be obligatory. I can check, but I think that's how they make a lot of their income.
[19:41:20] <indiebio> hotel rooms, cheapest is a quad unit at R2805, I think that's for the room, so divide that by 4.
[19:41:27] <indiebio> single rooms R2092
[19:42:05] - mwmwmwm online
[19:43:52] <nattie> welcome mwmwmwm, you've just wandered into a team meeting :)
[19:43:58] <wendar> indiebio: I wondered on that, did they give us the university discount or not?
[19:44:18] <wendar> because, it's not the rate they give on the website for university events
[19:44:24] <wendar> it's double and higher :(
[19:44:38] <tumbleweed> mwmwmwm: hi!
[19:44:56] <indiebio> I don't think so. I think this is the independent rate.
[19:45:15] <tumbleweed> does that mean we need to go back to them, now that we have UCT approval?
[19:45:16] <indiebio> This was before I heard ginggs managed to get approval! So now I can go back.
[19:45:26] <mwmwmwm> hello stef
[19:45:36] <indiebio> Also, I managed to deal with Alex, Michelle, my first contact, never came back to me.
[19:45:38] <tumbleweed> tibid: minutes so far
[19:45:38] <tibid> Minutes available at
[19:45:40] <tumbleweed> mwmwmwm: ^^
[19:46:55] <indiebio> for the record and my ever fading brain, can you action that I go back to breakwater now, tumbleweed, please?
[19:47:25] <tumbleweed> tibid: agreed indiebio to get UCT-approved prices out of breakwater
[19:47:25] <tibid> Agreed: indiebio to get UCT-approved prices out of breakwater
[19:47:32] <tumbleweed> gaah, I really need to make anyone able to minute things
[19:47:47] <nattie> tumbleweed: i think i'm supposed to be able to - shall i try it with the next item?
[19:47:53] <tumbleweed> you're welcome to
[19:48:08] <ginggs> indiebio: and wave deputy vice chancellors signature at them
[19:48:12] <indiebio> are there any other questions so long, wendar, or can I sommer write an email to Alex now already?
[19:48:28] <indiebio> have you sent it to me, ginggs? Have you got it yet?
[19:49:08] <ginggs> haven't got signed copies back yet
[19:49:28] <wendar> indiebio: did they give us quotes for the lecture theatres?
[19:49:39] <wendar> it seemed like we were missing some rooms
[19:51:29] <indiebio> I haven't looked at it yet...
[19:51:42] <nattie> the AV equipment hire looks a bit expensive
[19:51:45] <indiebio> I did see from a quick look the long exhibition hall...
[19:52:04] <indiebio> are there maybe just one venue, representing others of identical size?
[19:52:19] <indiebio> I think I'll have to go do another site visit, could do this on Friday...
[19:52:27] <nattie> that would be great
[19:52:39] <nattie> talking in person is probably helpful, too
[19:52:43] <tumbleweed> yeah, AV stuff does look pricy. I'm sure we could get a better deal elsewhere
[19:52:54] <indiebio> idea: would be good to meet with Alex then for a walk through
[19:53:05] <nattie> can i try to put that as an action item
[19:53:20] <nattie> tibid: agreed indiebio to arrange meeting with Alex for a walkthrough
[19:53:20] <tibid> Agreed: indiebio to arrange meeting with Alex for a walkthrough
[19:53:24] <nattie> \o/
[19:53:39] <confluency> Welp, this is what happens when I keep missing meetings. ;)
[19:53:59] <indiebio> \o/
[19:54:03] <tumbleweed> confluency: set a reminder?
[19:54:03] <nattie> confluency: happens in my choir too, one suddenly gets given solos if one misses rehearsals...
[19:54:08] <madduck> you get to be in charge of c&w meetings
[19:54:11] <madduck> i can imagine worse
[19:56:16] <tumbleweed> indiebio: any agenda items of yours that we still need to cover?
[19:56:31] <wendar> indiebio: updating spreadsheet now, looks like I've entered Executive Room, Faculty Room, and Lecture Theatre, and they haven't given us prices.
[19:56:42] <wendar> those rooms came from their public room list
[19:56:52] <indiebio> tumbleweed, I put the items in, are we on the same page?
[19:57:10] <tumbleweed> indiebio: I mean, we've had a rambling discussion, if you want to focus on anything, raise it
[19:57:11] <wendar> all the other rooms we have prices for
[19:57:21] <indiebio> 'K, catering...
[19:57:51] <nattie> ginggs told us earlier he contacted four catering firms and has a one reply back so far, but not a concrete quote
[19:57:51] <indiebio> what are the ballpark prices per meal? I know we say cheapest and recommended, but what are our reasonable estimate based on previous years?
[19:58:03] <indiebio> Are we looking at breakfast, lunch and dinner or what?
[19:58:18] <tumbleweed> yeah, we are
[19:58:30] <nattie> though in a townie type venue, there will be fewer people around for dinner, IME
[19:58:35] <tumbleweed> although maybe a fair number of people will choose to dine out
[19:58:35] <tumbleweed> yes
[19:58:42] <nattie> tumbleweed: great minds ;)
[19:59:19] <tumbleweed> given snacks (as all these conference packages seem to have), I can also see breakfast attendance being lower than lunch
[19:59:35] <indiebio> are there other ways of saving money? e.g. if they are charging for plates etc, when des it make economic sense to buy our own cutlery/ plates, as a wild example?
[19:59:43] <nattie> yeah. breakfast doesn't really need to be elaborate for everyone
[19:59:56] <nattie> though i guess bigger breakfasts being available would also be OK
[20:00:13] <tumbleweed> indiebio: in Nicaragua, we bought coffee mugs for all attendees
[20:00:30] <nattie> and in Portland we had the water bottles, but that's not catering as such
[20:00:37] <indiebio> I saw enamel mugs yesterday, I want one :)
[20:00:39] <tumbleweed> i'd imagine, hiring crockery is cheaper than buying it, but maybe not by much
[20:00:53] <nattie> also, where would the bought crockery go afterwards?
[20:01:02] <nattie> (guess we could donate it to a charity)
[20:01:03] <indiebio> yeah, so after how many days does it make more sense to buy, and can one sell these as second hand, ever?
[20:01:06] <indiebio> yeah
[20:01:19] <indiebio> anyways, just thinking through options
[20:01:25] <mwmwmwm> There is a rental place in paarden eiland, but it really only makes sense
[20:01:40] <drnlm> There's a bunch of costs around cleaning everything afterwards an such usually buried in the crockery hire prices, which would still need to be addressed
[20:01:46] <indiebio> and I think that's all I wanted to discuss.
[20:01:48] <mwmwmwm> if we are also doing our own cooking ?
[20:01:56] <highvoltage> o/ (sorry for being late)
[20:02:06] <nattie> highvoltage: hola
[20:02:19] <tumbleweed> I think given south african economics, doing our own cooking is uneccessary
[20:02:20] <indiebio> I think as quotes come through I'll try load to git and then email the list
[20:02:20] <nattie> mwmwmwm: doesn't really happen at DebConf anymore, own cooking
[20:02:31] <tumbleweed> (we never do that in the firsst world, where it costs 10x as much)
[20:02:40] <indiebio> ain't nobody got time for cooking :P (I HATE cooking)
[20:02:41] <nattie> (though access to a kichen would be awesome)
[20:02:49] <confluency> I loff cooking.
[20:02:57] <nattie> i am cooking-ambivalent.
[20:03:05] <nattie> there, we've got the whole cooking-spectrum covered :)
[20:03:05] <tumbleweed> although I guess switzerland's debconf-run bar had its own cooking
[20:03:05] <indiebio> I will make you corsets if you cook for me
[20:03:12] <confluency> But maybe not catering on a massive scale.
[20:03:19] <nattie> .oO(raclette)
[20:03:50] <confluency> I would totes make my garlic cheese, but don't blame me if it leads to forking because people can't stand to be near each other afterwards. ;)
[20:03:53] <wendar> I ran a camp kitchen in Kenya for 100, but 200-300 is out of my league. :)
[20:04:12] <mwmwmwm> What I meant is that I was under the impression that catering outfits tend
[20:04:20] <tumbleweed> confluency: rakija solves all those kind of problems
[20:04:27] <mwmwmwm> to provide cutlerly with not that much more prompting, so if you want to buy
[20:04:42] <indiebio> yeah, I guess.
[20:04:45] <tumbleweed> yeah, I'd imagine caterers have access to cutlery/crockery at good prices
[20:04:53] <mwmwmwm> or rent cutlery, then that would make sense if the caterers are left out
[20:04:55] <mwmwmwm> entirely
[20:05:05] <highvoltage> wendar: wow, that's already impressive
[20:06:31] <tumbleweed> I think there are definitely ways to save costs around catering
[20:06:42] <tumbleweed> but I also assume that this isn't going to be a huge portion of our budget
[20:06:50] <tumbleweed> (except maybe for UCT upper campus)
[20:07:00] <tumbleweed> so, we probably don't need to worry too much about it right now
[20:07:27] <tumbleweed> although, it sounds like feed is going to cost about as much as accom?
[20:07:49] <nattie> debianites are hobbits
[20:07:58] <nattie> we like food
[20:08:06] <tumbleweed> and we're also very happy with simple food
[20:08:16] <highvoltage> if only debianites had as awesome food songs :)
[20:08:23] <tumbleweed> (nicaragua was amazing, and I'm assuming scary cheap)
[20:08:47] <highvoltage> I really liked everything about nicaragua.
[20:08:59] <mwmwmwm> Aren't there hotel schools around ... which somehow could be roped
[20:09:04] <mwmwmwm> in or rented or something ...
[20:09:21] <indiebio> there are, actually!
[20:09:35] <indiebio> someone please action me to go find out about hotel schools
[20:09:41] <tumbleweed> talk to arbitraryuser? his wife is a chef
[20:09:53] <indiebio> not sure if they get inundated by requests, but I'll go find out
[20:09:58] <nattie> tibid: agreed indiebio to investigate hotel schools
[20:09:58] <tibid> Agreed: indiebio to investigate hotel schools
[20:10:06] <indiebio> thanks
[20:10:15] <tumbleweed> ok
[20:10:23] <tumbleweed> shall we discuss the bid document
[20:10:28] <mwmwmwm> would be quite fun to point conference goers at a large kitchen and
[20:10:32] <indiebio> unfortunately cape town doesn't fit the 'africa is cheap' bit.
[20:10:36] <mwmwmwm> say "make what you like" ...
[20:10:52] <tumbleweed> cheap, yes, but not insanely so
[20:11:12] <wendar> well, so far we're talking about EU 12-20 per day per person
[20:11:15] <wendar> that's cheap :)
[20:11:50] <madduck> what's that for? just food?
[20:11:55] <ginggs> $ make pasta make: *** No rule to make target 'pasta'. Stop.
[20:12:03] <wendar> that's like coffee and lunch
[20:12:04] <highvoltage> indiebio: so is cape town not cheap compared to europe / us still? sorry, haven't been following the costing so I don't have a clue really
[20:12:38] <madduck> wendar: 12 would be cheap, 20 not so IMHO
[20:12:50] <indiebio> not sure, I think we're a bit cheaper, but not as cheap as nicaragua would be. and more expensive than joburg and much more expensive than other african countries.
[20:12:59] <madduck> ftr, HD is about 12–15, depending on how you calculate
[20:13:23] <wendar> and, that's on the cheap side for Germany
[20:13:35] <madduck> that's very cheap
[20:14:17] <madduck> don't get me wrong, it's doable (12–20); I just wouldn't call it "cheap" ;)
[20:14:56] <indiebio> I'd agree, Cape Town in general is doable, but not 'cheap'.
[20:17:22] <tumbleweed> but we haven't been scraping the bottom of the pricing barrel, either
[20:17:26] <tumbleweed> anyway
[20:17:33] <tumbleweed> we need to get this bid done by the end of the month
[20:17:58] <tumbleweed> madduck was saying we should aim to have all of location checklist covered by the end of the week
[20:18:09] <tumbleweed> and aim for 10 days of bid polishing
[20:18:11] <tumbleweed> sound about right?
[20:18:11] <highvoltage> ah, I didn't realise.
[20:18:33] <wendar> sounds reasonable
[20:18:52] <wendar> madduck: I don't mean to imply it's a steal, but it's not insanely high
[20:18:58] <madduck> rigt
[20:19:00] <madduck> right
[20:19:24] <indiebio> OK, so I'm going to commit at least half of Friday to do venues, and then another half day next week.
[20:19:55] <tumbleweed> and I'm going to spend some decent time on this, too
[20:20:03] <tumbleweed> I keep saying that, though :(
[20:20:15] <indiebio> yeah, year end is a bugger.
[20:20:18] <nattie> tumbleweed: shall i remind you at intervals?
[20:20:28] <highvoltage> tumbleweed: I've been out of touch, anything I could do? I'll have a day or two available next week for this
[20:20:32] <tumbleweed> keeping conversation alive here is good for keeping motivation
[20:20:50] <highvoltage> +1
[20:20:53] <wendar> highvoltage: reading over what we've got and looking for gaps would be helpful
[20:21:04] <highvoltage> wendar: will do
[20:21:08] <tumbleweed> look at the location check list, and see what we aren't covering well
[20:21:09] <highvoltage> where's that git repository?
[20:21:13] <wendar> you've got a fresh set of eyes, so you'll see stuff we'll miss
[20:21:23] <tumbleweed>
[20:21:31] <tumbleweed> there are clone URLs there
[20:21:32] <highvoltage> thanks
[20:21:49] <indiebio> agreed, highvoltage
[20:22:04] <indiebio> I look at those things and it all blurs...
[20:22:41] <tumbleweed> ooh, indiebio even had to do a git merge
[20:23:26] <tumbleweed> anything else that we have to discuss?
[20:23:36] <indiebio> not intentional.
[20:23:44] <indiebio> nothing from my side...
[20:23:49] <tumbleweed> oh, when I was writing up the UCT venues, I thought we should get hold of someone in UCT staff who knows about disabled access
[20:23:58] <tumbleweed> there's a department that handles disabled students, somewhere
[20:24:12] <indiebio> I just heard montreal or something entered some date into their bid *gets all territorial*
[20:24:40] <indiebio> I think the venues people will help with that. Hopefully they'll be more responsive now that we have approval
[20:24:44] <highvoltage> just want to add that I liked the muggs and nicaragua. and all the good signage everywhere. and the cheap (AND good) coffee
[20:24:52] <indiebio> I think I'll go harass them in person on Friday morning.
[20:25:09] <tumbleweed> indiebio: do you want an action for that?
[20:25:31] <indiebio> erm, ya, why not
[20:25:51] <tumbleweed> tibid: agreed, indiebio to harass someone in UCT about disabled access
[20:25:51] <tibid> tumbleweed: Sorry...
[20:25:57] <tumbleweed> tibid: botslap
[20:25:57] <tibid> :(
[20:26:19] <tumbleweed> tibid: agreed indiebio to harass someone in UCT about disabled access
[20:26:19] <tibid> Agreed: indiebio to harass someone in UCT about disabled access
[20:26:35] <nattie> be kind to your bot!
[20:26:51] <tumbleweed> tibid: botsnack
[20:26:51] * tibid nom nom
[20:26:58] <tumbleweed> anything else?
[20:27:04] <indiebio> hahaha, what just happened?
[20:27:21] <tumbleweed> he didn't want the comma
[20:27:32] <indiebio> and then you slapped him??
[20:27:54] <highvoltage> it's ok, it's not nearly as violent as it sounds.
[20:28:08] <indiebio> hahaha. wow.
[20:29:32] <tumbleweed> I'll take that as nothing else
[20:29:38] <tumbleweed> and we can call it
[20:30:14] <indiebio> and we kept to exactly an hour. respect.
[20:30:19] <tumbleweed> tibid: end meeting