Convened at 2014-11-12 19:33:13.481509 by tumbleweed
in #debconf16-capetown on oftc
[19:33:13]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: start meeting about DebConf16 Cape Town Bid
[19:33:13]
* tibid
gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles
[19:33:21]
<tumbleweed>
agenda: http://whiteboard.debian.net/9fcb2.wb
[19:34:01]
<tumbleweed>
well, we've got the breakwater quote
[19:34:21]
<wendar>
I still need to enter that into the spreadsheet
[19:34:31]
<wendar>
also, a food quote for UCT main campus
[19:34:34]
<indiebio>
I haven't looked at the venue checklist thing yet - in other words, I haven't walked around again yet
[19:34:43]
<nattie>
i'll just get the breakwater info
[19:33:50]
<tumbleweed>
last meeting: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Bids/Cape_Town/Minutes/2014-11-05#Minutes
[19:36:54]
<nattie>
ok, got, reading now
[19:37:27]
<indiebio>
I haven't read it either, but just looking, the catering quotes say: 1 main course R170, 2: R195, 3: R220
[19:37:51]
<indiebio>
and because the restaurant is too small, they will have to set up a marquee tent, which will increase cost.
[19:38:03]
<indiebio>
And I'm imagining if it rains this will be sub-optimal.
[19:38:51]
<tumbleweed>
yeah
[19:38:56]
<nattie>
depending on how long the lunch break is, not everyone will be there at the same time, though
[19:39:11]
<nattie>
is using the internal catering obligatory if we go with Breakwater?
[19:39:12]
<tumbleweed>
yes, we ate in shifts, this year
[19:39:26]
<tumbleweed>
not formal shifts, but the dinner windows were 2 hours long
[19:39:41]
<nattie>
you'd get the initial stampede and the late stampede :)
[19:39:53]
<nattie>
("oh no, dining hall's closing in 10 minutes!")
[19:40:47]
<indiebio>
I think the internal catering would be obligatory. I can check, but I think that's how they make a lot of their income.
[19:41:20]
<indiebio>
hotel rooms, cheapest is a quad unit at R2805, I think that's for the room, so divide that by 4.
[19:41:27]
<indiebio>
single rooms R2092
[19:42:05]
- mwmwmwm
online
[19:43:52]
<nattie>
welcome mwmwmwm, you've just wandered into a team meeting :)
[19:43:58]
<wendar>
indiebio: I wondered on that, did they give us the university discount or not?
[19:44:18]
<wendar>
because, it's not the rate they give on the website for university events
[19:44:24]
<wendar>
it's double and higher :(
[19:44:38]
<tumbleweed>
mwmwmwm: hi!
[19:44:56]
<indiebio>
I don't think so. I think this is the independent rate.
[19:45:15]
<tumbleweed>
does that mean we need to go back to them, now that we have UCT approval?
[19:45:16]
<indiebio>
This was before I heard ginggs managed to get approval! So now I can go back.
[19:45:26]
<mwmwmwm>
hello stef
[19:45:36]
<indiebio>
Also, I managed to deal with Alex, Michelle, my first contact, never came back to me.
[19:45:38]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: minutes so far
[19:45:38]
<tibid>
Minutes available at http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/tibid-meetings/oftc-%23debconf16-capetown-2014-11-12-19-33-13
[19:45:40]
<tumbleweed>
mwmwmwm: ^^
[19:46:55]
<indiebio>
for the record and my ever fading brain, can you action that I go back to breakwater now, tumbleweed, please?
[19:47:25]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: agreed indiebio to get UCT-approved prices out of breakwater
[19:47:25]
<tibid>
Agreed: indiebio to get UCT-approved prices out of breakwater
[19:47:32]
<tumbleweed>
gaah, I really need to make anyone able to minute things
[19:47:47]
<nattie>
tumbleweed: i think i'm supposed to be able to - shall i try it with the next item?
[19:47:53]
<tumbleweed>
you're welcome to
[19:48:08]
<ginggs>
indiebio: and wave deputy vice chancellors signature at them
[19:48:12]
<indiebio>
are there any other questions so long, wendar, or can I sommer write an email to Alex now already?
[19:48:28]
<indiebio>
have you sent it to me, ginggs? Have you got it yet?
[19:49:08]
<ginggs>
haven't got signed copies back yet
[19:49:28]
<wendar>
indiebio: did they give us quotes for the lecture theatres?
[19:49:39]
<wendar>
it seemed like we were missing some rooms
[19:51:29]
<indiebio>
I haven't looked at it yet...
[19:51:42]
<nattie>
the AV equipment hire looks a bit expensive
[19:51:45]
<indiebio>
I did see from a quick look the long exhibition hall...
[19:52:04]
<indiebio>
are there maybe just one venue, representing others of identical size?
[19:52:19]
<indiebio>
I think I'll have to go do another site visit, could do this on Friday...
[19:52:27]
<nattie>
that would be great
[19:52:39]
<nattie>
talking in person is probably helpful, too
[19:52:43]
<tumbleweed>
yeah, AV stuff does look pricy. I'm sure we could get a better deal elsewhere
[19:52:54]
<indiebio>
idea: would be good to meet with Alex then for a walk through
[19:53:05]
<nattie>
can i try to put that as an action item
[19:53:20]
<nattie>
tibid: agreed indiebio to arrange meeting with Alex for a walkthrough
[19:53:20]
<tibid>
Agreed: indiebio to arrange meeting with Alex for a walkthrough
[19:53:24]
<nattie>
\o/
[19:53:39]
<confluency>
Welp, this is what happens when I keep missing meetings. ;)
[19:53:59]
<indiebio>
\o/
[19:54:03]
<tumbleweed>
confluency: set a reminder?
[19:54:03]
<nattie>
confluency: happens in my choir too, one suddenly gets given solos if one misses rehearsals...
[19:54:08]
<madduck>
you get to be in charge of c&w meetings
[19:54:11]
<madduck>
i can imagine worse
[19:56:16]
<tumbleweed>
indiebio: any agenda items of yours that we still need to cover?
[19:56:31]
<wendar>
indiebio: updating spreadsheet now, looks like I've entered Executive Room, Faculty Room, and Lecture Theatre, and they haven't given us prices.
[19:56:42]
<wendar>
those rooms came from their public room list
[19:56:52]
<indiebio>
tumbleweed, I put the items in, are we on the same page?
[19:57:10]
<tumbleweed>
indiebio: I mean, we've had a rambling discussion, if you want to focus on anything, raise it
[19:57:11]
<wendar>
all the other rooms we have prices for
[19:57:21]
<indiebio>
'K, catering...
[19:57:51]
<nattie>
ginggs told us earlier he contacted four catering firms and has a one reply back so far, but not a concrete quote
[19:57:51]
<indiebio>
what are the ballpark prices per meal? I know we say cheapest and recommended, but what are our reasonable estimate based on previous years?
[19:58:03]
<indiebio>
Are we looking at breakfast, lunch and dinner or what?
[19:58:18]
<tumbleweed>
yeah, we are
[19:58:30]
<nattie>
though in a townie type venue, there will be fewer people around for dinner, IME
[19:58:35]
<tumbleweed>
although maybe a fair number of people will choose to dine out
[19:58:35]
<tumbleweed>
yes
[19:58:42]
<nattie>
tumbleweed: great minds ;)
[19:59:19]
<tumbleweed>
given snacks (as all these conference packages seem to have), I can also see breakfast attendance being lower than lunch
[19:59:35]
<indiebio>
are there other ways of saving money? e.g. if they are charging for plates etc, when des it make economic sense to buy our own cutlery/ plates, as a wild example?
[19:59:43]
<nattie>
yeah. breakfast doesn't really need to be elaborate for everyone
[19:59:56]
<nattie>
though i guess bigger breakfasts being available would also be OK
[20:00:13]
<tumbleweed>
indiebio: in Nicaragua, we bought coffee mugs for all attendees
[20:00:30]
<nattie>
and in Portland we had the water bottles, but that's not catering as such
[20:00:37]
<indiebio>
I saw enamel mugs yesterday, I want one :)
[20:00:39]
<tumbleweed>
i'd imagine, hiring crockery is cheaper than buying it, but maybe not by much
[20:00:53]
<nattie>
also, where would the bought crockery go afterwards?
[20:01:02]
<nattie>
(guess we could donate it to a charity)
[20:01:03]
<indiebio>
yeah, so after how many days does it make more sense to buy, and can one sell these as second hand, ever?
[20:01:06]
<indiebio>
yeah
[20:01:19]
<indiebio>
anyways, just thinking through options
[20:01:25]
<mwmwmwm>
There is a rental place in paarden eiland, but it really only makes sense
[20:01:40]
<drnlm>
There's a bunch of costs around cleaning everything afterwards an such usually buried in the crockery hire prices, which would still need to be addressed
[20:01:46]
<indiebio>
and I think that's all I wanted to discuss.
[20:01:48]
<mwmwmwm>
if we are also doing our own cooking ?
[20:01:56]
<highvoltage>
o/ (sorry for being late)
[20:02:06]
<nattie>
highvoltage: hola
[20:02:19]
<tumbleweed>
I think given south african economics, doing our own cooking is uneccessary
[20:02:20]
<indiebio>
I think as quotes come through I'll try load to git and then email the list
[20:02:20]
<nattie>
mwmwmwm: doesn't really happen at DebConf anymore, own cooking
[20:02:31]
<tumbleweed>
(we never do that in the firsst world, where it costs 10x as much)
[20:02:40]
<indiebio>
ain't nobody got time for cooking :P (I HATE cooking)
[20:02:41]
<nattie>
(though access to a kichen would be awesome)
[20:02:49]
<confluency>
I loff cooking.
[20:02:57]
<nattie>
i am cooking-ambivalent.
[20:03:05]
<nattie>
there, we've got the whole cooking-spectrum covered :)
[20:03:05]
<tumbleweed>
although I guess switzerland's debconf-run bar had its own cooking
[20:03:05]
<indiebio>
I will make you corsets if you cook for me
[20:03:12]
<confluency>
But maybe not catering on a massive scale.
[20:03:19]
<nattie>
.oO(raclette)
[20:03:50]
<confluency>
I would totes make my garlic cheese, but don't blame me if it leads to forking because people can't stand to be near each other afterwards. ;)
[20:03:53]
<wendar>
I ran a camp kitchen in Kenya for 100, but 200-300 is out of my league. :)
[20:04:12]
<mwmwmwm>
What I meant is that I was under the impression that catering outfits tend
[20:04:20]
<tumbleweed>
confluency: rakija solves all those kind of problems
[20:04:27]
<mwmwmwm>
to provide cutlerly with not that much more prompting, so if you want to buy
[20:04:42]
<indiebio>
yeah, I guess.
[20:04:45]
<tumbleweed>
yeah, I'd imagine caterers have access to cutlery/crockery at good prices
[20:04:53]
<mwmwmwm>
or rent cutlery, then that would make sense if the caterers are left out
[20:04:55]
<mwmwmwm>
entirely
[20:05:05]
<highvoltage>
wendar: wow, that's already impressive
[20:06:31]
<tumbleweed>
I think there are definitely ways to save costs around catering
[20:06:42]
<tumbleweed>
but I also assume that this isn't going to be a huge portion of our budget
[20:06:50]
<tumbleweed>
(except maybe for UCT upper campus)
[20:07:00]
<tumbleweed>
so, we probably don't need to worry too much about it right now
[20:07:27]
<tumbleweed>
although, it sounds like feed is going to cost about as much as accom?
[20:07:49]
<nattie>
debianites are hobbits
[20:07:58]
<nattie>
we like food
[20:08:06]
<tumbleweed>
and we're also very happy with simple food
[20:08:16]
<highvoltage>
if only debianites had as awesome food songs :)
[20:08:23]
<tumbleweed>
(nicaragua was amazing, and I'm assuming scary cheap)
[20:08:47]
<highvoltage>
I really liked everything about nicaragua.
[20:08:59]
<mwmwmwm>
Aren't there hotel schools around ... which somehow could be roped
[20:09:04]
<mwmwmwm>
in or rented or something ...
[20:09:21]
<indiebio>
there are, actually!
[20:09:35]
<indiebio>
someone please action me to go find out about hotel schools
[20:09:41]
<tumbleweed>
talk to arbitraryuser? his wife is a chef
[20:09:53]
<indiebio>
not sure if they get inundated by requests, but I'll go find out
[20:09:58]
<nattie>
tibid: agreed indiebio to investigate hotel schools
[20:09:58]
<tibid>
Agreed: indiebio to investigate hotel schools
[20:10:06]
<indiebio>
thanks
[20:10:15]
<tumbleweed>
ok
[20:10:23]
<tumbleweed>
shall we discuss the bid document
[20:10:28]
<mwmwmwm>
would be quite fun to point conference goers at a large kitchen and
[20:10:32]
<indiebio>
unfortunately cape town doesn't fit the 'africa is cheap' bit.
[20:10:36]
<mwmwmwm>
say "make what you like" ...
[20:10:52]
<tumbleweed>
cheap, yes, but not insanely so
[20:11:12]
<wendar>
well, so far we're talking about EU 12-20 per day per person
[20:11:15]
<wendar>
that's cheap :)
[20:11:50]
<madduck>
what's that for? just food?
[20:11:55]
<ginggs>
$ make pasta make: *** No rule to make target 'pasta'. Stop.
[20:12:03]
<wendar>
that's like coffee and lunch
[20:12:04]
<highvoltage>
indiebio: so is cape town not cheap compared to europe / us still? sorry, haven't been following the costing so I don't have a clue really
[20:12:38]
<madduck>
wendar: 12 would be cheap, 20 not so IMHO
[20:12:50]
<indiebio>
not sure, I think we're a bit cheaper, but not as cheap as nicaragua would be. and more expensive than joburg and much more expensive than other african countries.
[20:12:59]
<madduck>
ftr, HD is about 12–15, depending on how you calculate
[20:13:23]
<wendar>
and, that's on the cheap side for Germany
[20:13:35]
<madduck>
that's very cheap
[20:14:17]
<madduck>
don't get me wrong, it's doable (12–20); I just wouldn't call it "cheap" ;)
[20:14:56]
<indiebio>
I'd agree, Cape Town in general is doable, but not 'cheap'.
[20:17:22]
<tumbleweed>
but we haven't been scraping the bottom of the pricing barrel, either
[20:17:26]
<tumbleweed>
anyway
[20:17:33]
<tumbleweed>
we need to get this bid done by the end of the month
[20:17:58]
<tumbleweed>
madduck was saying we should aim to have all of location checklist covered by the end of the week
[20:18:09]
<tumbleweed>
and aim for 10 days of bid polishing
[20:18:11]
<tumbleweed>
sound about right?
[20:18:11]
<highvoltage>
ah, I didn't realise.
[20:18:33]
<wendar>
sounds reasonable
[20:18:52]
<wendar>
madduck: I don't mean to imply it's a steal, but it's not insanely high
[20:18:58]
<madduck>
rigt
[20:19:00]
<madduck>
right
[20:19:24]
<indiebio>
OK, so I'm going to commit at least half of Friday to do venues, and then another half day next week.
[20:19:55]
<tumbleweed>
and I'm going to spend some decent time on this, too
[20:20:03]
<tumbleweed>
I keep saying that, though :(
[20:20:15]
<indiebio>
yeah, year end is a bugger.
[20:20:18]
<nattie>
tumbleweed: shall i remind you at intervals?
[20:20:28]
<highvoltage>
tumbleweed: I've been out of touch, anything I could do? I'll have a day or two available next week for this
[20:20:32]
<tumbleweed>
keeping conversation alive here is good for keeping motivation
[20:20:50]
<highvoltage>
+1
[20:20:53]
<wendar>
highvoltage: reading over what we've got and looking for gaps would be helpful
[20:21:04]
<highvoltage>
wendar: will do
[20:21:08]
<tumbleweed>
look at the location check list, and see what we aren't covering well
[20:21:09]
<highvoltage>
where's that git repository?
[20:21:13]
<wendar>
you've got a fresh set of eyes, so you'll see stuff we'll miss
[20:21:23]
<tumbleweed>
http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/debconf-data/bid-capetown.git/
[20:21:31]
<tumbleweed>
there are clone URLs there
[20:21:32]
<highvoltage>
thanks
[20:21:49]
<indiebio>
agreed, highvoltage
[20:22:04]
<indiebio>
I look at those things and it all blurs...
[20:22:41]
<tumbleweed>
ooh, indiebio even had to do a git merge
[20:23:26]
<tumbleweed>
anything else that we have to discuss?
[20:23:36]
<indiebio>
not intentional.
[20:23:44]
<indiebio>
nothing from my side...
[20:23:49]
<tumbleweed>
oh, when I was writing up the UCT venues, I thought we should get hold of someone in UCT staff who knows about disabled access
[20:23:58]
<tumbleweed>
there's a department that handles disabled students, somewhere
[20:24:12]
<indiebio>
I just heard montreal or something entered some date into their bid *gets all territorial*
[20:24:40]
<indiebio>
I think the venues people will help with that. Hopefully they'll be more responsive now that we have approval
[20:24:44]
<highvoltage>
just want to add that I liked the muggs and nicaragua. and all the good signage everywhere. and the cheap (AND good) coffee
[20:24:52]
<indiebio>
I think I'll go harass them in person on Friday morning.
[20:25:09]
<tumbleweed>
indiebio: do you want an action for that?
[20:25:31]
<indiebio>
erm, ya, why not
[20:25:51]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: agreed, indiebio to harass someone in UCT about disabled access
[20:25:51]
<tibid>
tumbleweed: Sorry...
[20:25:57]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: botslap
[20:25:57]
<tibid>
:(
[20:26:19]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: agreed indiebio to harass someone in UCT about disabled access
[20:26:19]
<tibid>
Agreed: indiebio to harass someone in UCT about disabled access
[20:26:35]
<nattie>
be kind to your bot!
[20:26:51]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: botsnack
[20:26:51]
* tibid
nom nom
[20:26:58]
<tumbleweed>
anything else?
[20:27:04]
<indiebio>
hahaha, what just happened?
[20:27:21]
<tumbleweed>
he didn't want the comma
[20:27:32]
<indiebio>
and then you slapped him??
[20:27:54]
<highvoltage>
it's ok, it's not nearly as violent as it sounds.
[20:28:08]
<indiebio>
hahaha. wow.
[20:29:32]
<tumbleweed>
I'll take that as nothing else
[20:29:38]
<tumbleweed>
and we can call it
[20:30:14]
<indiebio>
and we kept to exactly an hour. respect.
[20:30:19]
<tumbleweed>
tibid: end meeting