Meeting about DebConf16 Cape Town bid catchup

Convened at 2015-01-14 19:38:08.961569 by tumbleweed in #debconf16-capetown on oftc


[19:38:08] STARTED (tumbleweed)
[19:38:15] TOPIC: agenda (tumbleweed)
[19:40:48] TOPIC: feedback (tumbleweed)
[20:18:33] TOPIC: Any Other Business (tumbleweed)
[20:19:09] ENDED (tumbleweed)


Raw Log

[19:38:08] <tumbleweed> tibid: start meeting about DebConf16 Cape Town bid catchup
[19:38:08] * tibid gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles
[19:38:15] <tumbleweed> tibid: topic agenda
[19:38:15] <tibid> Current Topic: agenda
[19:38:19] <tumbleweed> anyone have anything to discuss?
[19:39:51] <indiebio> 1. Two items for the agenda from my side: 1. Catch up on bid, feedback from the powers that be? 2. Clean up wiki page - what exactly needs to be done?
[19:40:37] <tumbleweed> worksforme
[19:40:48] <tumbleweed> tibid: topic feedback
[19:40:48] <tibid> Current Topic: feedback
[19:40:55] <tumbleweed> you've seen the discussions so far
[19:41:14] <tumbleweed> if you aren't on the debconf-team list, you may have missed some questions, but I think replies were CCed to teh team list
[19:41:21] <tumbleweed> our team list, I mean
[19:41:29] <tumbleweed> things have been pretty quiet
[19:42:05] <superfly> Yeah, I saw the replies.
[19:42:23] <madduck> yeah, strangely quiet
[19:42:44] <indiebio> so basically apart from the oh africa is so unsafe, there's not been much? Do we know if winning the bid is probably?
[19:42:51] <madduck> i really don't know if this is a feature of the new teams structure we are still working on, or that the two bids just are so good ;)
[19:42:51] <indiebio> probable.
[19:43:06] <madduck> indiebio: i would say you have very good chances, really.
[19:43:57] <indiebio> is this montreal who's good too? Is Paris still an option, due to their proximity?
[19:44:08] <tumbleweed> paris hasn't put a bid in
[19:44:15] <indiebio> ah.
[19:46:48] <tumbleweed> madduck: I know the committee is trying to get representitives from each debconf subteam, to investigate the bids. I don't know how that's going
[19:46:55] <madduck> indiebio: i'd say montreal has good chances too although you guys have done better work so far
[19:47:14] <madduck> tumbleweed: yeah, i know; i am talking about public discussion…
[19:47:46] <tumbleweed> presumably it should result in public discussion
[19:47:56] <madduck> nah
[19:48:01] <madduck> public discussion beforehand
[19:48:16] <indiebio> Would it really make a difference to do more work on cleaning up the wiki, which I think only has to do with fleshing the back-up venue out more? I am not that keen on doing work on something post submission date, and even more so if it doesn't really influence things.
[19:48:32] <madduck> let's face it: the committee just has to pick either bid and we'll have a great dc16. what this means for us is that anything we can do now to polish our bid, i.e. by getting more certainty and support from e.g. venue, city etc. and even better presentation will increase our chances for dc16.
[19:48:50] <madduck> Otoh, if montreal wins, then our work won't be lost as we'll try again for dc17!
[19:49:11] <madduck> indiebio: no, I don't think "cleaning up" will do any good.
[19:49:21] <madduck> otoh, getting more specific on the backup venue will help.
[19:49:34] <madduck> i have never seen anyone "clean up" the wiki before
[19:49:41] <superfly> I was about to ask: What will help us win the bid?
[19:49:46] <tumbleweed> yeah, I'd like to re-bid if we don't win
[19:49:50] <madduck> the bid page is also not used after the decision, so…
[19:49:56] <tumbleweed> madduck: less clean up, more complete
[19:50:09] <madduck> right, any additional info helps, for sure
[19:50:11] <tumbleweed> we have room layouts in a spreadsheet, that never made it into the backup venue wiki pages
[19:50:16] - ginggs online
[19:50:18] <madduck> even such things as detailed travel/visa/health info
[19:50:20] <indiebio> ok. so my personal feeling on this is it's shelved in the back of my brain until there
[19:50:26] <indiebio> is a decision.
[19:50:30] <ginggs> hi all - happy new year - sorry i'm late
[19:50:45] <madduck> indiebio: especially if you have other projects on, this is a safe plan.
[19:50:51] <superfly> hi ginggs
[19:51:12] <tumbleweed> tibid: minutes so far
[19:51:12] <tibid> Minutes available at
[19:51:15] <tumbleweed> ginggs: ^
[19:51:16] <madduck> without feedback, putting more effort into the bid won't be as efficient as addressing feedback
[19:52:15] <tumbleweed> I think has all the things that I thought we weren't addressing well enough
[19:54:48] <madduck> yeah, that looks like a good list
[19:54:59] <superfly> hrm. I've been on UCT upper campus late at night (as one does with Ingress) and never had any "access" problems
[19:55:39] <tumbleweed> superfly: they'd probably be stricter for a conference (because they know we're there)
[19:55:43] <tumbleweed> but yeah, don't expect trouble
[19:55:48] <superfly> true, true
[19:57:31] - ginggs online
[19:57:45] <ginggs> brief power outage
[19:58:50] <indiebio> on the power... I think we definitely need to address power security in 2016. We're, uh, sortof in crisis here.
[19:59:02] <tumbleweed> yeaaah
[19:59:11] <indiebio> if not generators we need to have a long term approach and get solar or something jacked.... ?
[19:59:15] <tumbleweed> chem enge has a genset. Does UCT use it during load shedding?
[19:59:34] <tumbleweed> I guess it doesn't cover other lecture venues, though
[19:59:38] <tumbleweed> and it makes a racket
[19:59:53] <ginggs> chem eng have a generator for the building, NEB has its own generator
[20:00:20] <tumbleweed> and your server room has been reliably surviving load shedding?
[20:00:22] <madduck> why's there a crisis?
[20:00:51] <tumbleweed> madduck: not enough generation capacity in the country. Not being built fast enough. Not maintaining existing infrastructure, sufficiently
[20:01:03] <indiebio> SO worst case scenario, and playing devil's advocate... When would a cut-off date be for the Cape Town bid to say, SA went to pieces give it to Montreal? I don't know what the chances are... I guess it depends who you talk to.
[20:01:04] <ginggs> @tumbleweed: yes, server room (and internet connectivity through comp sci) has been fine during load shedding
[20:01:17] <indiebio> Eskom, our national power provider is falling to pieces.
[20:01:24] <tumbleweed> madduck: and the president says it's apartheid's fault
[20:01:57] <indiebio> but Malema says it isn't. Life is entertaining here, if nothing else :')
[20:02:16] <tumbleweed> indiebio: however, there are new power stations that should be online before 2016, right?
[20:02:24] <tumbleweed> so it's going to get worse, and then better
[20:02:27] <madduck> it's always everyone else's fault, unless it's mine. ;)
[20:02:34] <tumbleweed> and right now, it's getting worse because they're starting maintainance
[20:02:44] <indiebio> tumbleweed: in theory
[20:02:49] <madduck> well, I find it hard to imagine that a city and a university would be left in the dark so to speak
[20:02:54] <madduck> there'll be short-term solutions, no?
[20:03:01] <tumbleweed> madduck: the solution is rolling 2hr load shedding
[20:03:03] <madduck> but yeah, power outages would really break debconf
[20:03:04] <indiebio> I guess it will be fine. We also have solar and wind that I think is finally getting traction
[20:03:19] <madduck> by break i mean turn it into something else ;)
[20:03:28] <tumbleweed> usually it doesn't last longer than a week
[20:03:49] <tumbleweed> and it's scheduled
[20:03:53] <tumbleweed> so we could shechule talks around it
[20:03:54] <indiebio> living in a shack, I can tell you that one learns pretty quickly how to plan for these things. It's an adventure... I don't even notice the loadshedding :D
[20:05:34] <indiebio> ito scheduling around it, we would then need even more plugpoints to ensure that when there is power everyone can charge up to have battery when/if power goes
[20:06:18] <tumbleweed> and we'd want UPS power for all our infrastructure
[20:07:38] <indiebio> all of that totally doable.
[20:07:45] <tumbleweed> ginggs: has ICTS got to the point where the internet stays up over load shedding? A few years ago, their UPSs weren't so reliable
[20:08:08] <ginggs> tumbleweed: yes
[20:08:55] <tumbleweed> madduck: On the whole, peak demand is within capacity, but only just. So, generally, things are fine. When a big power station is down for maintainance, there can be continuous loadshedding until it's complete
[20:09:11] <tumbleweed> the worst was a few years ago, when we needed a turbine from france, and it took a while...
[20:09:44] <tumbleweed> are we done here?
[20:10:03] <madduck> to be fair, this may be a downside you want to play openly…
[20:10:17] <tumbleweed> yeah
[20:10:23] <tumbleweed> it's a risk
[20:10:36] <tumbleweed> probably no load shedding, but maybe...
[20:10:56] <madduck> i.e. what would it cost to have a generator for the worst case?
[20:11:11] <tumbleweed> the buildings already have generators, and will run them
[20:11:18] <tumbleweed> but this doesn't provide power everywhere
[20:11:39] <tumbleweed> ginggs: any idea how much spare capacity there is? And if there are UPS sockets in lecture theaters?
[20:13:36] <ginggs> tumbleweed: at the moment there is plenty of spare generator capacity, i think we're only using about 1/3. i don't think there are UPS sockets in lecture theatres; only labs and server room, network cabinets
[20:14:09] <tumbleweed> is running long extension leads an option?
[20:14:21] <ginggs> yeah i'm sure
[20:14:22] <superfly> Is UCT powered by the city, or by Eskom?
[20:14:26] <tumbleweed> to power say projectors and PA
[20:14:54] <ginggs> city i think, i'm sure we follow the city's load shedding schedule
[20:17:47] <tumbleweed> ok, I want to go eat
[20:17:47] <ginggs> we (south africa) do have two new big power stations coming online soon. i think the first sections should be coming on line within the next few months (april, iirc)
[20:18:05] <tumbleweed> and that'll probably keep us going for a few years
[20:18:16] <tumbleweed> although, if there are multiple power stations offline...
[20:18:33] <tumbleweed> tibid: topic Any Other Business?
[20:18:33] <tibid> Current Topic: Any Other Business
[20:19:09] <tumbleweed> tibid: end meeting