Minutes from Meeting about August Python course Convened at 2010-06-23 18:00:02.509457 by Michiel in #algorithm on shadowfire Minutes ======= [18:00:02] STARTED (Michiel) [18:23:01] AGREED: Accept 110, to aim to get > 100 (Michiel) [18:24:16] AGREED: tumbleweed will talk to ctpug for tutors (Michiel) [18:24:42] AGREED: Michiel will book venues with Gerhard (Michiel) [18:25:55] AGREED: marcog will send email about tutors (marcog) [18:33:56] AGREED: bob to ask steve about stellies course a few weeks after uct course (marcog) [18:38:16] AGREED: umonya money will NOT be used for August course (Michiel) [18:38:47] AGREED: bob to ask for sponsorship (marcog) [18:44:44] AGREED: problems from last time were great, though some may need to be slightly less ambiguous (marcog) [18:51:17] AGREED: Currently we will get Bernie to do the food, this could be reevaluated when we have money (Michiel) [18:57:39] AGREED: bob will design a poster for math digest (Michiel) [19:00:27] AGREED: Deadline for submissions 13 august, announcement 17 august (Michiel) [19:05:28] AGREED: Michiel will send email 19 July (Michiel) [19:05:55] AGREED: Michiel will send email 19 July, and 13 July (Michiel) [19:10:24] AGREED: ShadowMaster and Hamdulay to post letters (marcog) [19:10:48] AGREED: ShadowMaster will handle postage 6 July, with Hamdulay asisting (Michiel) [19:11:06] AGREED: Vaughan helping ShadowMaster and Hamdulay posting (marcog) [19:12:08] AGREED: Michiel will handle prep of letter and lables (Michiel) [19:19:24] AGREED: minor editing on course notes by lecturers supervised by bob (Michiel) [19:23:17] AGREED: Michiel will fight with icts for accounts ASAP (Michiel) [19:23:48] AGREED: will try wing IDE, from n:\saco\saco (Michiel) [19:30:36] AGREED: use short aptitude question, to be discussed offline (Michiel) [19:35:07] AGREED: target market g7-9 + 10-12 without IT (Michiel) [19:40:54] AGREED: bon wil write email script (Michiel) [19:42:06] AGREED: bernie will handle queries (Michiel) [19:47:30] AGREED: lecturers are bob, poulter, zy and Michiel (Michiel) [19:48:17] ENDED (marcog) Present ======= * Hayley (HayleyM) * Stefano Rivera (tumbleweed) * nine * Kosie (ShadowMaster) * dougx * UnUnOctium * Nomad010 * Marco Gallotta (marcog) * Michiel * Henk (zy) * Higure * BlaQ_PhoeniX * bob * Vaughan (Vaughan) * Graham (graham) * nine_ * Taejo * Yaseen (Hamdulay) Raw Log ======= [18:00:02] tibid: start meeting about August Python course [18:00:02] * tibid gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles [18:00:03] pahahaha [18:00:05] which is why I left irc open [18:00:11] Lol [18:00:30] Ok so we are having another course in August [18:00:44] agenda ^ [18:00:38] http://ietherpad.com/vLKgwyP26w [18:01:09] for those who dont have it [18:01:31] Is everyone present? [18:01:38] * marcog [18:01:45] * ShadowMaster [18:01:50] * Vaughan [18:01:52] tibid I am Kosie [18:01:52] ShadowMaster: Done [18:02:03] * graham [18:02:04] tibid I am Vaughan [18:02:04] Vaughan: Done [18:02:08] * UnUnOctium [18:02:08] HayleyM: ? [18:02:09] tibid: I am Graham [18:02:09] graham: Done [18:02:10] tibid I am Henk [18:02:10] zy: Done [18:02:37] Michiel: hayley said she'd be a little late [18:02:44] tibid: I am Yaseen [18:02:44] Hamdulay: Done [18:02:46] ok, First point is extending the duration of the course [18:03:08] i think adding an extra day would be stupid [18:03:16] tibid I am Hayley [18:03:16] HayleyM: Sure [18:03:23] I dont think its a good idea either [18:03:35] Michiel: is it only one day atm? [18:03:38] Michiel: we also have the problem that Friday is Mosque day [18:03:45] but we might as suggested start later and go on further on Sunday [18:04:05] ShadowMaster: but isnt that from 12 on friday? [18:04:07] ShadowMaster: every friday? [18:04:18] what time would we start? [18:04:18] 1 PM on fridays [18:04:28] what time on sunday would you start (if you wanted to avoid church?) [18:04:33] ShadowMaster: we start after mosque [18:04:39] marcog: good [18:04:50] let me find the old schedule [18:04:52] mosque usually ends at like 1:30 [18:04:53] last time we started at 4 iirc [18:05:23] yeh friday and saturday i dont care much about those are good [18:05:26] although there was stuff happening earlier that was not critical [18:05:34] sunday is the problem [18:05:46] 14:30 optional, 16:00 real start [18:05:53] i think that went well enough [18:06:08] marcog: second that [18:06:09] ended at 19:00 [18:06:15] so i think friday was perfect [18:06:25] as was saturday, 9am-5pm [18:06:35] sunday is the problem, we had 9am-1pm [18:06:57] surely people can go to church in the evening if they want? [18:07:01] church is around 9ish [18:07:01] what if we hve 9am opt, 11 real? [18:07:03] I would suggest 10.30 start on sunday [18:07:10] do we want to run later on sunday? [18:07:11] Hamdulay: church [18:07:15] Optional start at 9am [18:07:26] *hayleyM ^ [18:07:30] I am worried about the tutors that may have work to do over that weekend [18:07:46] or offer an extra session for those who need more help from 9-11am [18:07:50] marcog: we get something minimal for the optional session [18:07:51] zy: optional time would have few tutors [18:08:16] and what time do we propose ending? 14:00? [18:08:17] just remember if we do sunday through lunch, that means more food [18:08:26] we had 4 hours last time [18:08:28] optional during church sounds good to me [18:08:31] i would be able to work on sunday [18:08:39] 11am-3pm then [18:08:43] the problem is when everyone's church service is finished [18:08:54] 3pm means more food [18:09:01] as i say, surely they can just go at a different time? [18:09:03] zy: good point, then 11:30? [18:09:14] we normally have dance classes on sunday and the students all agreed to start by 11, church done by then [18:09:24] or 12pm-4pm and then those who come for optional slot bring their own food? [18:09:25] graham makes a good point, most churches have evening services [18:09:36] HayleyM: ah good [18:09:47] so 11am-3pm then sounds good? [18:09:52] so 11 to 3 sounds good [18:09:54] yeah [18:10:00] agreed [18:10:01] agree [18:10:05] graham: very often there is only a morning mass [18:10:12] hmm ok [18:10:18] ok lets move on to dates [18:10:23] graham: like the church i go to in sea point is only at 10am on sunday [18:10:30] although I know people attend both sometimes [18:10:32] 27 is suggested [18:11:04] Michiel: when you spoke to phil, was that the date we agreed on back then? [18:11:14] zy: yep [18:11:18] phil or gerhard? [18:11:39] phil re: maths dates [18:11:48] 20-22 August was what i discussed with Gerhard [18:12:05] which is what i discussed with phile [18:12:16] I like the 27th except that there might be tests after that weekend [18:12:23] anyone have a problem with that? [18:12:38] 20-22 is managabe [18:12:44] 20-22 might be better, if phil and gerhard agreed to it [18:12:47] Managable [18:13:18] no problem here [18:13:21] we dont want it too close to exams and tests either will stop us getting help [18:13:30] ShadowMaster and I have IOI [18:13:43] graham: when is that? [18:13:44] graham: when is that>? [18:13:46] sounds like a good plan, its 2 weeks before end of term [18:13:58] 12-23 i think [18:14:12] hmm, then we might want to hold it a week later [18:14:26] anyone have a problem with 27? [18:14:34] marcog: ill pull up that conversation with phile [18:14:48] i think there was a problem thinking back [18:14:57] kk [18:15:03] also asking him now [18:15:20] Obviously I won't be there to help [18:15:29] nor will i [18:15:34] tibid: I am Stefano Rivera [18:15:34] tumbleweed: Done [18:15:39] but i can do what i can from here [18:16:02] tibid: I am Marco Gallotta [18:16:02] marcog: Righto [18:16:57] im having trouble finding it [18:17:04] I am Michiel Baird [18:17:04] Michiel: phil says what was on that date isn't important [18:17:07] maths series [18:17:26] so 27th unless any objections? [18:17:35] sounds good to me [18:17:37] ok agreed [18:17:41] agreed [18:17:45] agreed [18:17:52] Michiel: you need to check with gerhard asap then [18:17:57] and CC hussein [18:18:11] i'll get to the reason why when we get to the point [18:18:17] if we cant get 27th can we go 20th? [18:18:18] tibid agreed 27th is date of august python course [18:18:18] ShadowMaster: One learns a new thing every day [18:18:32] Michiel: yup [18:18:41] tibid forget agreed 27th [18:18:41] ShadowMaster: Yessir [18:18:52] of Venues we are doing both labs [18:19:01] sorry late [18:19:12] Michiel: lab A+B plus 302+303 [18:19:19] hey dougx [18:19:23] hmm I should be on ubuntu but too lazy to restart ^.^ [18:19:23] hey marcog [18:19:24] hey ppl btw [18:19:30] hey Higure [18:19:39] tibid: minutes so far [18:19:39] Minutes available at http://holst.cs.uct.ac.za/~stefanor/tibid-logs/meetings/shadowfire-%23algorithm-2010-06-23-18-00-02 [18:19:43] lab A = how many people? same for B? [18:19:45] Higure: meeting in progress [18:19:55] hi Higure [18:19:55] ok so 100 kids? [18:19:58] zy: A = 88 PCs, B = about 30 [18:20:13] zy: but we want to test the split between labs for umonya [18:20:28] I was jsut interested in the capacity [18:20:31] Michiel: i say select 115, with the aim of getting 110 [18:20:32] Michiel: i know just checked my gmail now [18:20:43] zy: sup [18:20:57] marcog ok but if a pc fails? [18:21:07] tibid: 88+30 [18:21:07] marcog: 118 [18:21:17] I wouldn't rely on all the PCs [18:21:28] Michiel: invite 110 then? to be safe [18:21:34] 110 won't come [18:21:37] we've seen this [18:21:38] there's usually 1 or 2 not working [18:21:47] this leaves min 8 spare [18:21:49] agreed we also want some admin pcs [18:21:50] I would say accept 110, get 105, leeway for tutors to use a few [18:21:53] haven't had many pcs in the lab fail [18:22:03] HayleyM: yup, the aim is to get 100 [18:22:18] im fine with that [18:22:28] objections? [18:22:39] * Higure reads minutes [18:22:41] wouldnt go less than 110 [18:22:45] we should be able to get the increase in tutors [18:22:47] i think [18:22:56] ctpug people for a start [18:23:01] tibid: agreed Accept 110, to aim to get > 100 [18:23:01] Agreed: Accept 110, to aim to get > 100 [18:23:06] tumbleweed: you think they'd be keen? [18:23:19] i know a few who didn't know they could tutor last time [18:23:19] marcog: I reckno you could get a couple of them [18:23:24] k cool [18:23:26] tumbleweed: could you talk to them? [18:23:46] HayleyM: we didn't advertise widely because we knew we had plenty [18:23:47] Michiel: sure, will do [18:24:16] tibid: agreed tumbleweed will talk to ctpug for tutors [18:24:16] Agreed: tumbleweed will talk to ctpug for tutors [18:24:39] yeah, but they are available, shouldn't be a problem, i think its lecturers we need to look at [18:24:41] tumbleweed: just bump it through me, i'm managing tutors [18:24:42] tibid: agreed Michiel will book venues with Gerhard [18:24:42] Agreed: Michiel will book venues with Gerhard [18:25:14] Next point is co-hosting [18:25:20] Michiel: btw do you guys have enought tutors? [18:25:41] Higure: we should be fine, but i'll send around a msg about that shortly [18:25:43] when we get to discussing tutors, discuss how many, how long we want each to tutor for? [18:25:45] Higure: we will get enough [18:25:55] tibid: agreed marcog will send email about tutors [18:25:55] Agreed: marcog will send email about tutors [18:26:11] ok Should we co-host for August? [18:26:37] Michiel: personally i think we should focus on getting stellies people to help us [18:26:41] did we skip the 'More practice time' point or now later in agenda? [18:26:44] to test out that model [18:26:53] marcog: i agree [18:26:55] last time didn't go that great witht the co-hosting thing [18:27:06] yeah [18:27:07] marcog: I agree [18:27:20] HayleyM: i missed that thnk you [18:27:22] get them used to working with us for umonya [18:27:32] sorry, I'm here now [18:27:35] if we co-host I think we will want to record video before the course [18:27:45] tibid: minutes so far [18:27:45] Minutes available at http://holst.cs.uct.ac.za/~stefanor/tibid-logs/meetings/shadowfire-%23algorithm-2010-06-23-18-00-02 [18:27:52] in case there is trouble with the streaming like last time [18:28:04] zy: we have a full recording from feb [18:28:13] cool [18:28:16] zy: i think we should skip the co-shost for this couse [18:28:26] dougx: do you think the folks in jhb would be able to put something on? [18:28:37] if we give them recordings of the feb course [18:28:39] I think we should try for at least 1 other venue [18:28:49] nah, we'll have to ask at #ubuntu.za [18:29:08] how about the dude from bloem? [18:29:22] sixhourtennis: ? [18:29:35] dougx: he'll be in CT afaik [18:29:43] helping us i hope :P [18:29:50] * dougx will be away as well [18:29:57] i know [18:30:02] that's why i asked [18:30:12] :-p [18:30:21] what about the suggestion of having a course in stellies the following weekend? [18:30:32] that could work [18:30:37] bob: when are stellies vacs? [18:30:46] i like that idea [18:30:49] End 18 July [18:30:56] no next ones [18:30:57] I'll check when the next start [18:31:38] 4-12 Sept [18:31:42] that week is in the middle of stellenbosch exams [18:31:50] bob: maybe check this with steve, see what he thinks about sending a few tutors to the CT course then us sending a few the following week for a stellies course? [18:31:52] i mean weekend [18:32:22] so we need to talk to steve about this [18:32:33] hmm, then maybe after they come back from that sep vac [18:32:35] who is in kzn> [18:32:47] It will be good for us to practice hosting at a different venue [18:32:50] Michiel: they not ready just yet, bob still needs to liase with then [18:33:10] ok [18:33:10] and stellenbosch we can send people, kzn we can't atm [18:33:18] true [18:33:47] i think we should postpone this point until we talk to steve? [18:33:50] so we'll need to discuss cohosting at stellenbosch at a later time then [18:33:56] tibid: agreed bob to ask steve about stellies course a few weeks after uct course [18:33:56] Agreed: bob to ask steve about stellies course a few weeks after uct course [18:34:10] Next point sponsors [18:34:19] UCT starts term again 13 Sept, maybe a course 17-19 Sept? [18:34:22] graham: this is where you comw ine [18:34:36] HayleyM: we can discuss that after bob talks to steve [18:34:47] Michiel: no this is you and bob [18:34:52] fuuu [18:34:52] bob is handling sponsors [18:34:53] :P [18:35:03] you need to give bob the stuff from last time [18:35:08] and he's gonna handle it [18:35:13] the proposals, etc. [18:35:22] who will we send to> [18:35:24] ? [18:35:33] for now, just BSG and S1 [18:35:36] marco: I have the proposal that was in SVN [18:35:40] CHPC? [18:35:41] ah ok [18:35:48] Marco, what about aims? [18:35:50] Michiel: i'd axe them, they're too fail [18:36:00] bob: interesting idea, you could try them [18:36:02] I know they were mentioned last time, but I can't remember what we decided about them. [18:36:15] that was about hosting it there [18:36:17] Okay, I'll try. [18:36:21] Ah yes. [18:36:40] do we know what google is saying about co-sponsors yet? [18:36:48] no response yet [18:36:50] Michiel: no reply yet [18:37:13] ok, if we can we should try do thi independently from that money [18:37:15] 47-47 [18:37:21] WOW [18:37:36] Michiel: yes, no ways we taking funds from umonya for this we have to draw the line [18:37:49] I agree [18:38:16] tibid: Agreed umonya money will NOT be used for August course [18:38:16] Agreed: umonya money will NOT be used for August course [18:38:46] * Higure is tempted to tell tibid the money will be used for pizza [18:38:47] tibid: agreed bob to ask for sponsorship [18:38:47] Agreed: bob to ask for sponsorship [18:39:03] Higure: umonya money will be [18:39:04] :P [18:39:08] Sponsors settled then can we backtract to practice time> [18:39:11] hey Taejo [18:39:14] ? [18:39:16] tibid: minutes so far [18:39:16] Minutes available at http://holst.cs.uct.ac.za/~stefanor/tibid-logs/meetings/shadowfire-%23algorithm-2010-06-23-18-00-02 [18:39:26] Michiel: yup [18:39:47] HayleyM: your thoughts? [18:39:59] i think the course should be restructured to allow for this, and keep those ahead interested [18:40:11] this will be hard though [18:40:23] Michiel: I agree on both points [18:40:33] um, talking sponsors. we need to start locking into sponsors for the other courses RSN [18:40:35] i think practical session were awesome [18:40:42] and some money will have to be spent in august, on AV [18:40:56] I think we should introduce a topic and demo a simplish example on the board [18:40:58] tumbleweed: RSN? [18:40:59] tumbleweed: we don't need AV in august [18:41:04] marcog: real soon now [18:41:05] bob we do [18:41:11] then allow everyone practice time to get each topic [18:41:13] marcog: think we should add more of those? [18:41:19] gar [18:41:25] tumbleweed: ok, that is for bob but we;ll discuss in the umonya meeting which follows [18:41:26] those ahead can work on harder examples [18:41:39] Michiel: no, i think we had the right amount [18:41:45] but within lecture slots [18:41:51] we need to increase prac time [18:41:59] and not drag on into too much detail [18:42:07] and what HayleyM says [18:42:07] i see you are discussing some stuff [18:42:08] True dat [18:42:09] yeah i agree, however to do this we need to cut some content [18:42:28] Michiel: we just don't need to delve into aas much detail [18:42:39] agreed with bob [18:42:39] ok i hear you [18:42:41] leave the extra stuff for people to read.. [18:43:14] so reading is a prerequisit now ?:P [18:43:16] tibid: minutes so far [18:43:16] Minutes available at http://holst.cs.uct.ac.za/~stefanor/tibid-logs/meetings/shadowfire-%23algorithm-2010-06-23-18-00-02 [18:43:19] Nomad010: ^ [18:43:30] The practical sessions means we have more of a sense of progression [18:43:37] yes [18:43:41] ok [18:43:43] so everyone agreeing? [18:43:48] if the lectures cover too many topics some get lost in the examples [18:43:50] and the problems we used last time were great [18:44:02] for prac sessions [18:44:19] Question: would it be a good idea to have a fairly complicated program, that we build upon the whole way through? [18:44:23] Michiel: we'll have to spond some time on this though [18:44:29] problems from last time were great, though some may need to be slightly less ambiguous [18:44:35] bob: i dont think so [18:44:44] tibid: agreed problems from last time were great, though some may need to be slightly less ambiguous [18:44:44] Agreed: problems from last time were great, though some may need to be slightly less ambiguous [18:44:47] if people get lost then they are screwed [18:44:54] Michiel: agreed [18:44:57] Michieltrue. [18:45:12] bob I think that works better when you can work through it at your own pace/use it as a reference [18:45:21] moving along [18:45:26] Food [18:45:41] I have a c++ book that builds on an accounting program every chapter to show example code [18:45:50] if we get sponsorship we should ask Bernie to help again she was great [18:45:57] Michiel: i think that's an easy one [18:46:03] bernie was perfect [18:46:04] Someone was supposed to fiind out if any of the pizza places will offer reduced prices [18:46:11] not neccessarily for this course [18:46:16] just give her more notice, that's all she asked for [18:46:16] This may be complicated to do but is it possible to build examples (thinking for Umonye) that are small problems that can be joined together by the final day - code reuse taught early [18:46:36] HayleyM: that sounds like a great idea [18:46:37] HayleyM: Yeah, that could work [18:46:46] agreed [18:46:48] bob: for umonya [18:47:17] that sounds cool [18:47:26] oops, wrong spelling again [18:47:27] Still, I think the pizza should be looked into sooner rather than later... [18:47:33] bob: would you rather have pizza? [18:47:43] HayleyM sounds like a good idea to me [18:47:53] i think its too expensive tbh [18:47:59] bob: we'll leave that for the next meeting [18:48:04] Butlers offers deals if you organise ahead of time - they are in some cases even willing to sponsor the full cost [18:48:21] -_- Lets not get into a pizza discussion. Lets say if you get R5k sponsorship, what else would we use it for? [18:48:41] we have 2 meals this time [18:48:47] True [18:48:49] How much does that work out to each? [18:48:52] 5k is barely enough to cover that [18:48:57] bob postage, stationary [18:49:07] small stuff adds up [18:49:13] tibid: (110+15)*2*20 [18:49:13] marcog: 5000 [18:49:18] HayleyM: ^ :P [18:49:44] i think last time we went for ~15 a person [18:49:55] ok, so low cost options then [18:50:00] so i think we should say Bernie and reevaluate when we have money? [18:50:34] yup [18:50:40] yep [18:50:53] ask her for a quote then take it to the sponsors in the proposal [18:51:08] Okay. [18:51:17] tibid: agreed Currently we will get Bernie to do the food, this could be reevaluated when we have money [18:51:17] Agreed: Currently we will get Bernie to do the food, this could be reevaluated when we have money [18:51:41] Moving along [18:51:56] bob: send me a reminder email and i'll send you some food options - we cater a lot for dance functions [18:52:06] Cool [18:52:15] the toughest part of organising the course is working with the schools [18:52:40] Yes. Did sending general letters to Schools work out last time? [18:52:48] bob: yes [18:52:56] Or did we only get responses from schools where we contacted the teachers directly? [18:52:58] we must do that earlier this time [18:53:09] I agree, I cant do it from here [18:53:13] and we should also try calling some schools perhaps? [18:53:21] seems only ShadowMaster and bob is able [18:53:23] maybe ask bernie? [18:53:29] marco: trouble is in choosing which schools to call [18:53:42] I mean it could be biased [18:53:50] marcog: i think we should be careful in abusing her [18:54:00] if course is 27 August, what would the application deadline be? [18:54:16] Michiel: ask sonia, she will probably be happy to allow it [18:54:22]