Minutes from Meeting about Project Umonya planning Convened at 2010-06-23 19:48:34.433967 by marcog in #algorithm on shadowfire Minutes ======= [19:48:34] STARTED (marcog) [21:06:54] ENDED (marcog) Present ======= * Hayley Mc Intosh (HayleyM) * Stefano Rivera (tumbleweed) * ShadowMaster * Marco Gallotta (marcog) * Michiel Baird (Michiel) * nine * Robert Ketteringham (bob) * Vaughan * Graham Manuell (graham) * Yaseen Hamdulay (Hamdulay) Raw Log ======= [19:48:34] tibid: start meeting about Project Umonya planning [19:48:34] * tibid gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles [19:48:44] i think you could try Ryan Goosen as possible lecturer (if need alternatives) [19:48:57] First thing. I need to know, is it Umonya or Umonye [19:49:12] yeah [19:49:15] Because I think it was originally with an "e" but according to google its an a [19:49:18] a [19:49:39] it was always a [19:49:44] so its not just me :P [19:49:49] bob, Michiel, HayleyM, graham, Vaughan: you all here? [19:49:56] Yes [19:49:57] present [19:50:07] yip [19:50:09] tibid: I am Michiel Baird [19:50:09] Michiel: Sure [19:50:19] tibid: i am Marco Gallotta [19:50:19] marcog: Yessir [19:50:20] tibid: I am Stefano Rivera [19:50:20] tumbleweed: Righto [19:50:21] tibid: I am Robert Ketteringham [19:50:21] bob: Yessir [19:50:25] tibid: I am Graham Manuell [19:50:25] graham: Sure [19:50:28] Vaughan: ? [19:50:35] tibid I am Hayley Mc Intosh [19:50:35] HayleyM: Alrighty [19:50:39] ok, well lets get going anyways [19:50:42] http://ietherpad.com/Lqvf8tftXa [19:50:49] I am Yaseen Hamdulay [19:50:52] just to be clear [19:50:53] tibid: I am Yaseen Hamdulay [19:50:53] Hamdulay: Sure [19:51:05] august course is the final pilot for umonya [19:51:14] they're separate, but very related because of that [19:51:29] we might be directed quite closely by google [19:51:40] we have a mentor here, gary coleman [19:51:52] he's originally from cape town, but now in zurich [19:52:03] i'm meeting him next week to discuss some stuff [19:52:27] so you know, we have to be open to letting google adjust a little about how we do the course [19:52:41] ok, first item [19:52:44] that's a good thing [19:52:52] august course, Michiel you already have that going strong [19:52:59] mentorship is good [19:53:01] so i'm not gonna touch on that [19:53:06] :P [19:53:12] mailing lists [19:53:30] Need to be restructured... [19:53:30] i'd like to do more discussion on this on mailing lists to keep a record [19:53:47] irc is ok, but people like HayleyM get left out then [19:53:47] But not everyone needs to be on the discussion list right? [19:53:59] so i want to have a hierarchy of lists [19:54:28] marcog: mailman also has a subject tagging thing. Never used it though... [19:54:41] i think the 5 ppl get everything, next level gets the decisions maybe [19:54:47] marcog: sorry, i'm here [19:54:47] such as cs4hs (everyone interested in hearing the latest), cs4hs-admin (me, bob, Michiel, HayleyM), cs4hs-logistics, etc. [19:55:04] Vaughan: np, i'll get to you in a bit [19:55:18] tumbleweed: yes i've used that but i must say i prefer google groups for this [19:55:28] anyways i'll handle this [19:55:34] money [19:55:41] graham: have you made any progress? [19:56:00] could we use a google group and then email cs4hs with developments [19:56:02] ok. so as i mentioned earlier i have two things in mind [19:56:38] nedbank: 6.25% to 6.35%. takes 24 hours to access [19:56:48] also i have just seen: no internet banking [19:56:56] :/ [19:56:57] HayleyM: we can have a group to keep them informed, i think we need a liason to do this and bob might be the best for this [19:57:09] graham: nedbank internet banking has a poor reputation [19:57:16] absa: 6.0%. instant acess with internet banking [19:57:29] graham: whaaa? my father uses internet banking to transfer from MM to CA [19:57:43] marcog: for Park It account [19:57:47] yes [19:57:57] heh. ok [19:58:12] anyways maybe policy changed [19:58:15] i will check about this too [19:58:16] never had an issue with nedbank internet banking though nedbank to nedbank takes 24 hrs to appear [19:58:30] Capitec 5.75% Instant access, Internet banking and R4.50 monthly fees :P [19:58:33] tibid: 30000*1.03 [19:58:33] marcog: 30900.0 [19:58:51] bob: i looked at capitec. not as good imo [19:59:06] Mk. [19:59:17] so interest will probably be around $1,000 total i don't think .25% makes a diff [19:59:23] also nedbank park it = 0 fees [19:59:28] absa? [20:00:06] graham: capitec users seem to love them and they are known to be the cheapest [20:00:13] absa changes you to put money into the account, but nothing else afaik [20:00:23] 58 58 [20:00:33] *charges [20:00:58] I love them :D But they're probably not VERY geared towards this sort of account, more Savings account. But there transaction fees and such are cheap. [20:01:11] stdbank? fnb? [20:01:23] fnb didn't have what we were looking for [20:01:25] 59,58 [20:01:33] graham: charges you how much to put in? [20:01:37] sorry, I was talking about captice. [20:01:38] either fixed time period or low interest [20:01:46] marcog: i think 5% [20:01:48] i will check [20:01:53] that's a fair bit [20:02:06] absa sounds better here then [20:02:19] with instant access, can we use it as a CA? [20:02:30] CA? [20:02:36] current account [20:02:37] marcog: that's what i was thinking [20:02:38] currentt account [20:02:51] how much do they charge for deposit? [20:02:52] which would simplify things [20:02:53] graham: can you find out? [20:02:58] tumbleweed: 0 [20:03:02] 22:00 <@graham> absa changes you to put money into the account, but nothing else afaik [20:03:17] oh sorry, i thought that was nedbank [20:03:24] no. 5% for absa [20:03:28] 6% interest [20:03:30] nedbank park it charges are? [20:03:36] zip! [20:03:47] graham: that negates the interest for < 1 year [20:04:01] ja i know.... [20:04:02] ok, then in that case nedbank park it + CA looks better [20:04:05] graham: but we don't get internet banking, you said. that'll presumably have to be paid for [20:04:12] when will we ever need urgent < 24 hr access [20:04:47] marcog: you have a valid point [20:05:09] also the other nedbank account will cost to deposit i think [20:05:12] marcog's reasonings seem good [20:05:24] graham: is transfer between the accoutns free? [20:05:56] no [20:06:04] R7. so cheap [20:06:09] yeah, not an issue [20:06:30] yeah we won't be transferring piddy amounts anyway [20:06:41] match ponit isner [20:07:00] ok. so do we need the same bank for money market and CA [20:07:19] it will probably make it much easier to manage [20:07:23] and maybe cheaper? [20:07:27] ja. ok [20:07:36] well. not much cheeper, but ja [20:07:47] well check up just to make sure [20:07:58] lower charges could end up making a significant saving [20:07:59] i will find out about internet banking though [20:08:03] kk [20:08:21] then are there any arguments against putting the account in graham's name? [20:08:26] 59,59 [20:08:26] also. is google happy to transfer into a private account [20:08:46] graham: we will have to wait for them to contact us about this [20:08:55] marcog: can we do that, tax-wise? [20:08:57] no objection from me [20:09:04] Well if they're okay with it, I'm okay with it. [20:09:07] tumbleweed: i'm not sure [20:09:11] I know where graham sleeps... [20:09:12] i'm okay with it [20:09:12] well. then we can't do anything until then [20:09:30] graham: no but we can work out the best plan if they do allow it [20:09:35] yes [20:09:36] What are the tax implications? [20:09:41] so we think not absa [20:09:42] we need to find those out [20:09:46] We're not a registered NGO :( [20:09:56] we could also ask james about getting the money into a uni account (itc fund) and then transferring out of that [20:10:18] hmm. would that be tax free? [20:10:22] UCT also can provide non-profit status, IIRC [20:10:29] game suspended till tomorrow [20:10:32] graham: the problem is personal income [20:10:39] (in my mind) [20:10:53] hmm. ja [20:11:02] Anyone know any lawyers? [20:11:21] Or is this what a CA does? [20:11:21] i have 0 idea what happens here [20:11:29] we don't need lawyers, we need a tax specialist [20:11:34] an accountant will do [20:11:40] do we have one anywhere lying around? [20:11:47] in #clug or something? :P [20:11:47] I know an Actuary.... does that help? [20:11:49] you can try asking the bank [20:11:49] i could ask my mom [20:11:56] UCT -> me. would be donation i think [20:11:58] shes sleeping though [20:12:09] UCT may have someone we can talk to [20:12:10] If you register as a small business of some sort you won't get charged tax (at least at std bank rondebosch, ballroom has their account there) [20:12:12] 0.25*(money-100,000) [20:12:18] in fact I know the finance person in Science [20:13:12] graham: ok, i think you need to dig around a bit more ask Michiel and HayleyM for tips afterwards [20:13:27] we need a signing off policy [20:13:37] i think you need to keep some money in a UCT account, UCT can provide many discounts for cars/insurance/tax write offs but only if there is a UCT account to put it on [20:13:40] ill ask my mom shes jet lagged atm but as soon as shes better [20:13:42] is what i have in the etherpad suitable? [20:14:07] Fine by me. [20:14:12] but we need to keep a record somewhere [20:14:14] HayleyM: for that we can always pay from the itc fund which is a uct account and then pay back [20:14:17] marcog: etherpad structure fine by me [20:14:24] yes, graham will need to do that [20:14:25] ok [20:14:31] And how exactly does a sign off policy work online? [20:14:37] graham: you ok with it? [20:14:39] ok. so we are thinking nedbank park it + nedbank current [20:14:45] i like it too [20:14:49] ok [20:14:50] bob: in person for >= 5k [20:15:04] Online for 1-5k? [20:15:17] for any amount, graham has to do it anyway [20:15:33] sorry, i meant >= 1k [20:15:52] No, note that I might be in Stellenbosch when you need to do a >5k purchase, and I aint driving through. [20:16:10] right, and i won't be there [20:16:12] silly me [20:16:23] My digital signature is worth its weight in gold though. [20:16:31] do we accept online then? [20:16:32] gpg-signed e-mail? works for debian... [20:16:43] i like it too [20:16:44] Yeah, I agree with gpg-signed email [20:16:48] maybe >=5k we require Michiel to sign-off in person [20:16:49] agreed [20:16:59] with tumbleweed [20:17:07] ok [20:17:10] ok [20:17:14] ok [20:18:07] Next? [20:18:10] so, for < 1k graham can make a paymentl 1-5k one of us 3 online; >=5k Michiel in person and bob and i online [20:18:18] next is budget [20:18:35] i think we need to hear from co-sponsors here fist [20:18:47] need to eat something ill read logs be back in a minute [20:18:49] skip co-sponsors until Google responds, not worth debating [20:18:50] if we can get that extra $10k we don't need to alter it much [20:18:56] yes [20:19:05] so "ifnorm others" [20:19:09] bob you ok with that? [20:19:31] i think it's good to keep those folks informed of our project [20:19:41] marcog: okay with what? [20:19:47] Inform others (Robert in charge) [20:19:48] Inform Peter Waker, Max Brock, Mike Chiles and Prof Webb that we got [20:20:01] Oh yeah [20:20:03] thats fine. [20:20:07] ok [20:20:10] next is hosts [20:20:16] Except, I don't know who Mike Chiles is [20:20:27] i will tell you [20:20:29] kk [20:20:36] bob, can you follow-up with ukzn? [20:20:43] we've left them dry for too long which is bad [20:20:43] So i sent an email to the guy at UKZN [20:20:48] oh good [20:21:02] keep us updated [20:21:07] bck [20:21:09] dougx isn't here [20:21:28] but bob, when you see him can you make sure to ask him the status of jhb? [20:21:39] I've already asked [20:21:44] kk [20:21:51] hold on while I pastebin [20:21:51] and steve well we're safe there [20:21:54] kk [20:22:25] germany and ghana go through [20:22:31] yay! [20:23:03] ok. guys sorry to backtrack. but absa only charges 0.4% on deposit [20:23:07] http://pastebin.com/zqSa7jnm [20:23:16] tibid: 30000*0.04 [20:23:16] marcog: 1200.0 [20:23:33] tibid: 30000*0.05 [20:23:33] marcog: 1500.0 [20:23:37] Graham are you talking about a cash deposit? [20:23:44] yes [20:23:48] that's still high [20:23:58] Why are we depositing cash? [20:24:00] compared to nedbank free [20:24:23] true. but it means we don't need two accounts [20:24:38] and we don;t know if nedbank charge for internet banking [20:24:58] but i'll check [20:25:00] graham: I think you should get more info? And we can decide later? [20:25:00] moving on [20:25:06] bob: yes [20:25:12] can you find all this out and draw up a comparison of expected total charges and non-monetry benefits? [20:25:13] uct and stellies ok to host, dates agreed? I think we need to move UCT to earlier in the year to follow through with Algorithm Circle lectures properly [20:25:32] marcog: ok [20:25:57] HayleyM: dates aren't settled yet [20:26:00] [still OT, but for many personal/student accounts when you have >R10k (or something) in the bank you get no charges] [20:26:06] should we settle dates? [20:27:15] logistics (my job) would be easier for budget review if dates fixed [20:27:33] HayleyM: we're holding this year's august courseonly 1 week before scheduled CT course [20:27:36] Thats true. What are the factors involved? [20:27:39] i don't think it's too late? [20:27:47] true but you had 1 in feb too [20:28:26] Sorry I'm lost... What? [20:28:27] that's true [20:28:41] the problem date wise for logistics is actually UKZN and JHB, nm [20:28:48] Yes [20:28:51] For flights [20:29:00] And there, it depends on when they have there holidays [20:29:03] yes, but we might be able to get better overall dates if we budge those [20:29:26] bob: we're thinking of moving UCT course form Sept to earlier in year (on etherpad) [20:29:30] HayleyM, bob: can i suggest you two have a closer look at the dates together after this? [20:29:37] ok [20:29:43] i do agree making the uct course earlier is better [20:29:47] Alrighty. [20:29:57] maybe see if jhb can als be shifted earlier [20:30:12] but overall, bear in mind stellies might be too soon to get major rewrite of notes done [20:30:30] remember, we'll also possibly be having a Stellenbosch course this September... [20:30:30] can we go to next point [20:30:33] albeit a small one [20:30:35] yes [20:30:47] flights and accommodation [20:31:14] HayleyM: i think if we can get an indication of the cotst early [20:31:20] even if we don't have dates [20:31:30] it will help me with the budget if we have to reduce it [20:31:54] I'll cost it over the next week (I have an hour research presentation tom morning 9am) [20:31:57] and for accommodation, best to find out with them now to see if we have to budge the dates [20:32:00] k cool [20:32:13] anything else we need to discuss there? [20:32:15] what kind of accommodation are we looking at? [20:32:19] ShadowMaster: you here? [20:32:27] bob: varsity res [20:32:31] cheaper the better [20:32:33] :P [20:32:39] So then it will have to be in there holidays? [20:32:46] *their [20:32:49] that's what i aimed for [20:32:50] I'll also email Kulula about group discounts, out of curiosity, if we could get them to give us flights for free, would this be considered sponsorship? [20:33:08] HayleyM: I have already done this [20:33:12] if they don't require us to say anything, then no [20:33:32] ShadowMaster: ? [20:33:42] They don't give discounts based solely on bulk purchase [20:33:42] bob: emailed about discounts? [20:33:53] marcog: [20:34:05] yip, a while back.When we were planning on flying 50+ teachers :P [20:34:08] ShadowMaster: your topic is up next, just wait a sec [20:34:26] my topic? [20:34:31] "Unfortunately there is no discount on group bookings, we also quote of the internet. The difference with group bookings are the terms and conditions in regards to when we require payment and names, please see below," [20:34:34] bob: but can they give discounts to us as a sponsor? [20:34:35] oh, ok, their sponsorship reviews are in August, which means we need dates by then if we want to write a proposal for even partial funding [20:35:00] ShadowMaster: food, that's your duty :P [20:35:01] But yes, thats different to sponsoring. [20:35:24] HayleyM: we should have it finalised by then i'm sure [20:35:31] yeah, talk to all of the airlines [20:35:59] ok, UCT also gets cheaper flights through Mango in some cases, will review all [20:36:01] anything else here or can we move on? [20:36:18] Move on... [20:36:18] HayleyM: cool [20:36:21] ShadowMaster: food... [20:36:27] do you mind managin this? [20:37:05] I dunno the first thing but it shouldn't be too hard [20:37:15] i'll help you [20:37:18] Thats okay for our venue, but at other venues it might be hard for ShadowMaster to manage. [20:37:22] but i can't do it myself as i'm not there [20:37:42] so we're getting food for everyone or only "staff"? [20:37:44] bob: yeah, i mean in charge..i.e. for jhb ask them there to sort it out [20:37:55] ShadowMaster: the budget has a detailed plan [20:37:58] mk... [20:38:04] link? [20:38:50] should be a shared googledoc [20:39:23] next/ [20:39:32] no wait [20:39:37] fine... [20:39:59] ShadowMaster: invited you [20:40:13] basically, there are the following main things [20:40:31] snacks are like fruit very cheap mostly for the poor kids who would otherwise go hungry [20:40:43] lunch for everyone is like bernie food [20:41:18] lunch/supper for students is either take-outs or pizza check the budget [20:41:30] and then during d3evelopting the notes [20:41:36] we gonna chow lots of pizza [20:41:40] :D [20:41:41] as we not going to payh volunteers [20:41:48] And red bull [20:41:55] so speaking to st elmos/butlers is good for that [20:41:59] get a good deal [20:42:04] maybe even they can sponsor us [20:42:15] make them aware of how much pizza we're gonna chow [20:42:29] :D [20:42:35] :D [20:43:13] ShadowMaster: sound ok? [20:43:46] well you can chat to me afterwards if there any issues [20:43:50] next point [20:43:53] Vaughan: ping [20:43:56] pong [20:43:56] Equipment! [20:44:09] tumbleweed: ping [20:44:09] Vaughan: you sounded happy to handle the recording and shit [20:44:10] :P [20:44:15] yep [20:44:22] read in there [20:44:25] bob: thanks :) [20:44:19] http://ietherpad.com/Lqvf8tftXa [20:44:26] explains a lot [20:44:37] michiel is in the us [20:44:45] he can buy stuff cheap there and bring back [20:44:50] yes i am [20:44:58] speak to tumbleweed about what is needed [20:45:03] the main question i have [20:45:09] do we need two cameras? [20:45:12] or will 1 do [20:45:21] so, my questions there: [20:45:32] It would be nice to have one on the board and one on the presenter. [20:45:37] if we want to display both the speaker and the board in remote venues [20:45:47] also requires more projectors, or Picture-in-picture [20:45:51] But then again if the board is on a projector [20:45:53] *but*, it gives redundancy [20:45:56] then you only need one camera [20:46:02] marcog: makes sense [20:46:05] pip is good enough, i think [20:46:13] bob: "the board is on a projector" ? [20:46:14] and redundancy i agree with [20:46:34] If we have two camera's, we can also release the first python documentation "IN 3D" [20:46:47] lol bob [20:46:52] lol [20:46:52] Sorry, I'll stop. [20:47:03] Python in 3D [20:47:23] Are we still gonna buy a Video Editing Server? [20:47:43] yes more servers :D [20:48:00] tumbleweed: is it neccessary? [20:48:04] bob: so, for PinP you either need a video mixing desk (hire) [20:48:23]